UK planning positions

15 September 2008



To all UK - Planning Planet



kindly advise,



i have a contract offer from, Philipps Electronic Co.Ltd(PEC), the work is in philipps factory plant in UK,

Philips House,1000 Hillswood Drive, Chertsey, Surrey, KT16 0PS

but the processing and payments for work /residence permit and travel expense shall be to my account and will be refunded only upon start of work,

is this the normal procedure in uk?

they referred me to a travel agent- O Travel Agency 118 Tottenham Court Road, London W1T 5AN

www.otravelagency-uk.com

is it normal procedure also to go thru travel agency for work/residence permit processing?

thanks,



Roland

Hi Sukumaran



If in job requirement, it is specified



"UK/EU residents only please".



and u are not UK resident but u apply then no body will answer you, it is understood.



Moreover recruiters in UK only prefer UK resindents therfore to apply such jobs is only waste of time for non UK residents.



There is no doub that some good UK recruiters reply but most of the them ignore us.

UK planning positions are like a mirage to us.......................

Hi Peter,



As Daya said, there is a lot of advertisement for Planning position on JOB PAGE. But don’t forget the requirement "UK/EU residents only please".



Even if the recruiters didn’t mention the specific requirement and let the planners from all over the world to apply, still it is hard to get through the short listing process.



I have tried many times applying for the various planning position in UK i.e. from Intermediate to Senior Planners but so far there is no replies from the recruiters. The recruiters are just don’t bother to reply our application, whether our application is short listed, KIV or rejected.



Can the moderators inform the recruiters to reply the candidates whether their application is successful or not. IT is really FRUSTRATED waiting for the answer.



Also, the recruiters post the same job position again and again. Some re-appear again after few weeks. Look like UK planners like to hop from one company to another very often within short period. Is it true....



Regards.

Hi All

Is there any good position job for the UK planning work ?

You ware a nice suit go to office work.

After one week or two week go through visiting site and take some picture from the ob site,and then revise update

the plan (schedule/programme) data and everything onformation.



I need a UK planning position for me,



regards



petr sun

Hi guys,



I would like to add a new dimension about the topic. It’s about the influence of politics in job placements.



Have you noticed most of the terms, topics issues about the subject is one way or the other came from the brains of politicians. Some examples are the following:



1. EU - who created this body? what is the objective of this grouping? Are they really working in the interest of this group of countries or my country first before the group.

2. Immigration Laws - who formulates the laws for each country?

3. WTO - who espoused that there will be free trade between countries but in reality it’s just protecting my interest first before what they call as level the playing field.



My only point here is, these difficulties in applying for a job not only in the UK and maybe somewhere else for that matter are somehow, to a large extent, is influenced by politicians who are admired and elected for their being protective of their constituents.



I know I may have gone too far on the topic, but I believe people of each country especially the politicians are just protecting its own people. This is the reality which maybe in our lifetime could not be changed.



So cheers guys. The total no. of independent states in the world is 192. So we still have 191 to choose from.

Shahzad,



You are obviously a planner under 40 years old, because I have first hand experience of advertised posts where age is a fundamental critera.

It maybe as Dayanidhi suggests that a younger candidate demands less money, or the position offered does not require someone of 10 plus years experience.



However from my point of view, if an employer has a demanding planning role that requires someone with over 10 years experence for a senior position, then a candidate of 40 or more years old should not be excluded purely on age grounds. Austrailia for instance appears to want a "younger" element based on it’s imigration laws, but for a short contract why invoke this age critera.



I’m getting grumpy again.

So Shahzad be the best planner you can be, and don’t leave it too long to work in places that, when you have some snow on the roof may not welcome you with open arms.



Regards

Grumpy old man Maddocks

Age factor is nothing. Your abilities and expertise to be proven yourself. That’s it

Age is always one of my problem in getting a right job. It is the other way around for me.



I had experienced with one of my previous employer, they think that I am too young to be a master planner so they offer me initially as scheduler, but guess what only after 12 months, they promoted me twice and become the master planner to manage the whole team of scheduling managers and schedulers and almost everyone work for me is lot older than me. {Thats proves that age is nothing to do with knowledge and skill}



Why employer always had a preception with young people or old people?? I guess this happens everywhere.

Dear Paul,



You have raised another issue, age factor?. Good. It depends entirely on the employer’s intention of recruiting aged people???(40 yrs is not a big age) considering the size/complexity/nature/risk of the job and level of our responsibility etc. I think age factor is not a big factor. May be the employer do want to pay less salary, so he might have set age as a criteria.



Regards



Daya

Racism in Oz and many other countries may not be a problem but being over forty years old is.

Having applied recently to Oz and other countries I’ve recieved responces that infer agism is alive and well.

A number of advertised poitions also state an upper age limit of 40.



Need to get some plastic surgery and lie that I have less than 20 years experience I suppose.



God now I am sounding like a grumpy old bugger!!

So, just like I imagined, Racism is not a issue in this matter.



What it counts in our business is the knowledge, positive attitude, performace and value added to the work.



Regards

Ramon

Dear Planners



I think that some of you might think that Australia is not very open to non white color planners (I see that in some of the ad recently) However, I think this situation is consider very rare now in here.



Look at me I am here only two years and now employed as one of the senior role as the master planner of a large government organisation. Performance is the only factor consider during the interview, not because I am Chinese or not. Although I experience once during a pre-interview with an well known agents in here and ironically the job is actually located in Hong Kong. See, its not Australia employer looking and skin color its Asia employer looking at skin color. All the interviews that I had in here, I almost instantly got the job regardless my skin color or how I speak English.



We are going into very sensitive discussion area, I want to stated my experience in Australia which I never came across any issue with works related to my skin color.



Cheers



Alex

Did I get lost in the conversation? Are we talkig racism in Australia? for hiring purposes?



As I understand, Australia is an open country for foreigners like Venezuela....



In any case, the fact of the matter is, and I insist, demand governs the labor market, visas issues are an obstacule in many cases, there is not a worldwide association for Project Planners and Planning Planet could take this role for sponsoring qualifed members.



Best regards

Ramon Granados

Alex,



G’d On You Mate...for doing the decent thing for the very lucky backpacker.....Fair Dinkum.



There will be a lot of Asian backpackers flying to Sydney in no time...( I am pulling a fast one on you)...since the Australian construction industry and the general market sentiment is at all time high now and for a long time not since 1988 when I was there...



I still think your case is the exception rather than the norm since you are really......a "minority" (or "ethnic") in Australia. My experience there has been different there 15 years ago...and recently..Believe me. But it still is a big big step from the "White Australia" days....for which we are grateful...for you ...really.

My friends,



Dont think that the idea will work if it is just a trade association where members having to meet in person and network effectively. Being bound to a geographical location as most of us here are outside of UK, I have serious doubts if the kind of cross-country and international relocation we spoke about here could be served by forming such entity.



I reckon that it suffices to have the networking remaining at the casual and cyber level as it is now.... unless we are turning it into a professional instituition like RIBA or CIOB, with examination and certification of various level etc...and huge amount of subscriptions.



Just look at Society of Construction Law(SCL) for which the EOT protocol is but one of the common causes for the members....



There were not much of networking outside of the cyberworld, may be a few meetings or conference in various regional centres outside of UK in a year, with probably less than 50% of the members attending I guess....



Unless you are collecting more than 400 pounds sterling per day as a TOP UK based claim consultant, dont think you have spare monies to pay the kind of subscriptions there...for what is very little in return, at least for most of our members outside of UK and those regional centres.



If you are already a member of SCL there are even less reasons to create another entity serving what seems to be overlapping purpose here...

The idea of Planning Planet as Registered Planning Association is really good and hope so it may applicable shortly.

I was not only refering to UK positions but around the world.



Yes, perphas with the time Planning Planet may become a registered asociation for planners and should also become a sponsor for planning positions anywhere.



regards

Ramon Granados

Oh dear,



Stuart Ness wrote... (albeit some time ago)....



"I think that one of the reasons why there are so many requirements for UK-based planners is because of the Delay and Disruption Protocol issued by the Society of Construction Law. This has given the planning profession more credibility and increased the profile of the profession across the UK (well, at least in Southern Britain!!)."



Sorry Stuart, but I cannot agree. The protocol has had very little impact in the UK construction industry. I haven’t yet come accross one single project that has used it. I do accept however that there might be some.



Lots of people have different opinions on the Protocol, me included, but I cant see it being written into construction contracts by clients because certain aspects are far too biased towards contractors. It is after all, mainly the clients who determine what will go into construction contracts. If it doesn’t suit them, then they simply wont include it.



As I see it, the Protocol may have raised the profile of planning engineers, but it certainly hasn’t given us more credibility.



Is there a forum area for discussions on this topic?



Gary France

Hello Planners of the world:



It seems a bit difficult to understand that in a search of a globalized economy, visas are the main obstacule for achieving the goal.



There is a contradiction in this matter. I truly believe if we are to compete in the global market, those kind of restrictions should be considered as an old newspaper.



Planners can play an important role in the years to come, not only in the O&G / Energy industry but in the enviromental issues as well, which will affect political decisions. And with such a important web page like Planning Planet, tons of informations can be crossed for the benefit of all.



Companies are willing to hire the best and the affordable. Goverments do not help as they should. So as a private iniciative, sponsorship should be a second option to fullfill avaible positions wherever requiered.





Best regards

Ramon Granados

Dear Alan,

Quote:The reason that a lot of these positions in the UK are for UK residents only is due to the sensitive nature of the industries i.e. Nuclear/Defence etc. in which security clearance is required.
UnQuote:

Interesting to hear that lot of those positions related to Nuclear/Defence field. Are you talking about the jobs posted in PlanningPlanet site or some other site else?

Regards

Daya

Hi Planners



In terms of getting a job in Australia, I did employed a backpicker and turn her travelling visa into permanent working vias.



It had process invovled but I dont see there is a big cost to it. Its whether the empolyer willingly or not to take the effort to employ someone valuable to the company where they had difficulty locate with the country.



:))

Interesting debate



I would like to jump in on two issues.



1) When applying for a job, most agencies don’t have the decency to acknowledge your E Mail. Dont give me this bull story they receive so many E mail they cant return them.



2) One member spoke about the opportunities in Australia,

Ever tried getting a work permit? There is so much red tape involved, and at a high cost.Very difficult to get in I’m afraid.



3) I agree we should make a effort and promote this site to the employment agents, it our duty to do so.It is also our duty to stop our planning members getting bullied in accepting below average salaries, just because they come from so called Asian or third world countries. We must stick up for each other. this way the employers will have to recognise he is trying to pay peanuts,or maybe he’s looking for monkeys?



Members regards and thanks for a lovely site

The reason that a lot of these positions in the UK are for UK residents only is due to the sensitive nature of the industries i.e. Nuclear/Defence etc. in which security clearance is required.



It goes without saying that we would not want people from other countries working in them.

Dear All,



Quote: "But in the advt. itself they are filtering out the candidates by using the following statement, only UK/EU residents can apply, even for middle east jobs is discriminating one."

Un quote.



To defend my view refer this Link



Regards



Daya

I think that one of the reasons why there are so many requirements for UK-based planners is because of the Delay and Disruption Protocol issued by the Society of Construction Law. This has given the planning profession more credibility and increased the profile of the profession across the UK (well, at least in Southern Britain!!).



I suggest, taking a long term view, that planners are in a similar position to that of QS’s 20 years ago, when it was essentially a UK profession, but now you can find us everywhere! (even in Alaska!)

Today’s planners are simply ahead of their time! ;-)



Cheers,

Stuart

www.rosmartin.com

Being Territorial animals such as we human are ....there is always the tendency to defend one’s fiefdom or turf.



Just when you thought WTo is working towards breaking down trade barriers world wide, organisation like EC are building up less formal barriers in the form of visa restriction.



While there may be genuine needs to protect the interests of their citizens, the making of archaic laws which are far from transparent and full of unknown pitfalls are possibly geared to frustrate the less informed as appeared to be case in the EC rules. Anyway it is sufficient that they cause additional concern and hassles to warrant Employers and Recruitor prequalifying their advertisement to discourage non EC applicants.



But I still think it is very much a Recruitor initiated thing as they have every reason to prefer candidates demanding a better package, on which their compensation is calculated. Some employers, if not most would not mind considering the best available candidates, from EC or otherwise.



To have a fair chance you probably have to circumvent the recruiters to deal direct with the potential employers.....how ? ..I have no idea...

Dear Planners,



If you looking for warm and sunshine. Try Australia, at the moment there is plenty of jobs around for experienced planners around Australia. try www.mycareer.com.au

search for P3 or Primavera.



I have a different point of view regarding the level of salary. I guess if you have the right experience and Qualification, you should be in control in terms of salary and their offer. I think currently the planner market is in shortage, and the high Calibrate Applicant are rare, usually they are very much attached to a good position. It is very difficult for company to find the right planner unless they prepare to paid a high price.



If you are one of them (high Calibrate planner), dont need to worry at all, you can get jobs anywhere in the world. Trust me.



Cheers

Alex

Well Said Shahzad,



Man never be happy in Heaven too. Good.



Usually when a person wants to apply for a job, he will see that whether he can meet the job requirements or not but if you happen to see more frequently in this forum jobs related ads, saying only UK/EU nationals can apply will make someone more frustration, if you find the candidates are suitable to the job then the employer has to make arrangements to issue visa/work permit. I know that there are lot of restrictions in the visa procedure, but in case of software professionals they are not following it so stringently. The basic question is lot of development activities are on going in UK, then why don’t they recruit planners like other software professionals from non-UK/EU residents.



or else as per Gavin’s comments we can swap planners just for 6 months or so. so that we could have an opportunity to see other parts of the world.



Best Regards



Daya.

Asif



Add following sentence in your last para"



Man never happy in HEAVEN also. Earning is small thing.

Dear Planners



I agree to Gavin. Although there are jobs available in the UK market, but dont get excited looking at the salary which most of the recruiters post. The first thing is that like other countries, the employers will ask for the UK experience which will either make it difficult to get the job or will immediately bring down your salary to may be 25% less or even lower as advertised. Please dont multiply the pound with your currency to check the salary. Its just misguiding.



Everyone knows that there is a huge shortage of doctors in UK and every year thousands of doctors come from india to appear for the PLAB exams here which is pre-requisite to get a job in UK. But would you believe that most of the doctors even though with lot of experience cannot get job for years. With PLAB exam centers all over the world, they are just making money.



The tax in UK are one of the highest in the world which will bring at the end of the month to a salary in which you can hardly live and survive. I wonder that may be sometime soon, the UK government will impose the tax on the oxygen also which we are breathing as on every other thing they are already charging the tax.



As I have worked in middle east and far east, i will say that the quality of life in UK is worst here than other places. I wish like what Gavin said that can we swap our jobs with some hotter countries with very little tax or no tax on the income.



At the end i will say no one is ever satisfied even though how good they are earning.



Wish good luck to all planners who want to come to UK.



Asif

I never though i would hear "Equal Opportunity Employer" and the "Middle East" mentioned in the same conversation.

(I have a memory of my boss in Yanbu, Saudi trying to take my passport when i arrived)



To be honest, the market is fine the way it is in the UK, there is plenty of work for all planners and companies do not have the upper hand, for once.



To bring in more planners from overseas would only drive down the salaries and day contract rates, I know alot of planners reading this would not be too happy if this happened.



Jaco- Your are right, it is too cold and wet here.......i would guess that 80% of planners are saving up to go and live somewhere warm and all the planners in the warm countries want to come here.......maybe we could all do swap or 6 month job share.........any planners in the Maldives??????????





Anyway,



Good luck all, with your job hunting.

Well if you are interested to go work in the UK why dont you imigrate then.



I can just say welcome to the real world.



Please note it is not just the UK but the same laws apply to most of the world. In fact I can’t think of anywhere in the world this dont apply. (Maybe you can list some country’s)



I think you should go and have a look at USA EOA.





The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 requires employers to assure that employees hired are legally authorized to work in the U.S. However, an employer who requests employment verification only for individuals of a particular national origin, or individuals who appear to be or sound foreign, may violate both Title VII and IRCA; verification must be obtained from all applicants and employees.



Cheers



PS if you want to work in the UK why dont you immigrate ???

Dear Luca,



I’ve checked your link, it shows that a minimum of 65 points is enough to apply for migration under HSMP category. In fact i have got more points than the said requirements. Submission of all relevant documents are not a big deal. But in the advt. itself they are filtering out the candidates by using the following statement, only UK/EU residents can apply, even for middle east jobs is discriminating one.



Why don’t they follow like many or all companies in US are being an Equal Opportunity Employer........



what can i say more about this?............



Regards



Daya

Try these links to have a better understanding of the UK immigration law

http://www.workingintheuk.gov.uk/working_in_the_uk/en/homepage/work_per…?



http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/S…



It can be not easy also if you are a EU, as no bank will allow you to open a bank account if you did not stay in the contry for at least three months.

You will not get your National Insurance Number if You will not have at least 3 pay slip.

Forget about your Health assurance number, as you will not be entitle to use public fund.

Dear Jaco/Steve,

I’ve gone through your comments, but still i am not convinced with those things, it looks like a black box to me about UK visa procedure.

Anyhow God is great...........

Regards

Daya

Daya



Always remember that you can buy your way into Europe (Imigration)if you realy want to ???. But who wants to It is cold and wet and it snow.



The last time I checked it was around US$ 30 000.00 I would assume it would cost the employers in UK / EU the same amount so they are just trying to save some money.





Also remember if they employ people from elsewhere you would normally like an very attractive package this will also be very expensive.



If you review the salary offered take off the taxes/ accomodation/flights/Visas etc you will realize that almost nothing is left.





I would also agree that a lot of the planning jobs advertised are the same job. (They dont even change the wording). That gives a false impression that a lot of jobs are available in the UK which is not so.



I agree with the moderator that we need to get more brokers involved in planning planet so that we can see wat is happening in the rest of the world.





Cheers

Morning Daya



One of the biggest stipulations on a working visa is that you / company that is willing to sponser you, will not be depriving a UK national or EEC national out of the position.

which from past experience is very hard to prove



Regards

Steve

Morning Daya



One of the biggest stipulations on a working visa is that you / company that is willing to sponser you, will not be depriving a UK national or EEC national out of the position.

which from past experience is very hard to prove



Regards

Steve

Dear Members



As the moderator of the Planning Planet has explained, the system in UK is a bit different from other countries whereby almost all the jobs are being advertised/posted by the recruiters and not the employers. Hence these recruiters have live websites which keep on updating the new jobs as it comes. It also happens sometimes that the same job is being advertised by different consultants on different websites which gives the impression of so many jobs. Again such jobs are advertised regularly on different dates which again gives the impression that new jobs are being advertised although these are same jobs which were advertised some time back.



This system is a bit different from other countries whereby mostly the jobs are advertised in newspapers by the employers and not on the websites.



Again the visa regulations in UK are very strict and it is not that easy to get a work permit for non UK/EU residents.



I hope the above clarification will try to justify that why there are so many jobs being advertised on the net are from UK.



Regards



Asif

Dear Steve,



You need plenty of planners in UK for the present job requirements, why can’t you select a non-UK/EEC people in advance to recruit and obtain visas for them. If the visa obtaining process requires 3months(just for an example), and if you found any suitable non-UK/EEC candidates then you can apply visa for them in advance and then utilise their services later for the projects.



Just for an example, i know that plenty of Software professionals from asia(especially from india)are being recruited without any such restrictions in UK, then why it is observed for other disciplines?. if you have demand that too 1000++ jobs in UK, why do you want to follow the restrictions?. Do you have sufficient UK/EEC people to meet such a demand? i can’t believe this .......................



Regards



Daya

Dayanidhi

Its because of the very strict new very strict immigration laws, for non UK and EEC residents, for instance anyone outside these areas are looking at a min 8 weeks to obtain a work visa

Dayanidhi



Its because of the very strict new very strict immigration laws, for non UK and EEC residents, for instance anyone outside these areas are looking at a min 8 weeks to obtain a work visa

If someone tell me about number of planners available in UK then i would be happy. Most of the positions called for vacancies in UK insisting for UK or EU residents only, why they are not inviting non-UK/EU planners? if they have plenty of job vacancies.

The reason that there are so few jobs that are shown as outside of England is that there are not as many recruiters who are aware of the system.



If more of us planners in the PP member pool were to tell recruiters in our areas about the PP site, then we would start to get a more wider spread of job locations on the jobs page.



Jimmy, do you know of any recruiters?



Regards.