15 September 2008

To all UK - Planning Planet

kindly advise,

i have a contract offer from, Philipps Electronic Co.Ltd(PEC), the work is in philipps factory plant in UK,
Philips House,1000 Hillswood Drive, Chertsey, Surrey, KT16 0PS
but the processing and payments for work /residence permit and travel expense shall be to my account and will be refunded only upon start of work,
is this the normal procedure in uk?
they referred me to a travel agent- O Travel Agency 118 Tottenham Court Road, London W1T 5AN
www.otravelagency-uk.com
is it normal procedure also to go thru travel agency for work/residence permit processing?
thanks,

Roland

UK planning positions are like a mirage to us.......................

Hi All
Is there any good position job for the UK planning work ?
You ware a nice suit go to office work.
After one week or two week go through visiting site and take some picture from the ob site,and then revise update
the plan (schedule/programme) data and everything onformation.

I need a UK planning position for me,

regards

petr sun

Shahzad,

You are obviously a planner under 40 years old, because I have first hand experience of advertised posts where age is a fundamental critera.
It maybe as Dayanidhi suggests that a younger candidate demands less money, or the position offered does not require someone of 10 plus years experience.

However from my point of view, if an employer has a demanding planning role that requires someone with over 10 years experence for a senior position, then a candidate of 40 or more years old should not be excluded purely on age grounds. Austrailia for instance appears to want a "younger" element based on it’s imigration laws, but for a short contract why invoke this age critera.

I’m getting grumpy again.
So Shahzad be the best planner you can be, and don’t leave it too long to work in places that, when you have some snow on the roof may not welcome you with open arms.

Regards
Grumpy old man Maddocks

Age is always one of my problem in getting a right job. It is the other way around for me.

I had experienced with one of my previous employer, they think that I am too young to be a master planner so they offer me initially as scheduler, but guess what only after 12 months, they promoted me twice and become the master planner to manage the whole team of scheduling managers and schedulers and almost everyone work for me is lot older than me. {Thats proves that age is nothing to do with knowledge and skill}

Why employer always had a preception with young people or old people?? I guess this happens everywhere.

Racism in Oz and many other countries may not be a problem but being over forty years old is.
Having applied recently to Oz and other countries I’ve recieved responces that infer agism is alive and well.
A number of advertised poitions also state an upper age limit of 40.

Need to get some plastic surgery and lie that I have less than 20 years experience I suppose.

God now I am sounding like a grumpy old bugger!!

Dear Planners

I think that some of you might think that Australia is not very open to non white color planners (I see that in some of the ad recently) However, I think this situation is consider very rare now in here.

Look at me I am here only two years and now employed as one of the senior role as the master planner of a large government organisation. Performance is the only factor consider during the interview, not because I am Chinese or not. Although I experience once during a pre-interview with an well known agents in here and ironically the job is actually located in Hong Kong. See, its not Australia employer looking and skin color its Asia employer looking at skin color. All the interviews that I had in here, I almost instantly got the job regardless my skin color or how I speak English.

We are going into very sensitive discussion area, I want to stated my experience in Australia which I never came across any issue with works related to my skin color.

Cheers

Alex

Alex,

G’d On You Mate...for doing the decent thing for the very lucky backpacker.....Fair Dinkum.

There will be a lot of Asian backpackers flying to Sydney in no time...( I am pulling a fast one on you)...since the Australian construction industry and the general market sentiment is at all time high now and for a long time not since 1988 when I was there...

I still think your case is the exception rather than the norm since you are really......a "minority" (or "ethnic") in Australia. My experience there has been different there 15 years ago...and recently..Believe me. But it still is a big big step from the "White Australia" days....for which we are grateful...for you ...really.

The idea of Planning Planet as Registered Planning Association is really good and hope so it may applicable shortly.

Oh dear,

Stuart Ness wrote... (albeit some time ago)....

"I think that one of the reasons why there are so many requirements for UK-based planners is because of the Delay and Disruption Protocol issued by the Society of Construction Law. This has given the planning profession more credibility and increased the profile of the profession across the UK (well, at least in Southern Britain!!)."

Sorry Stuart, but I cannot agree. The protocol has had very little impact in the UK construction industry. I haven’t yet come accross one single project that has used it. I do accept however that there might be some.

Lots of people have different opinions on the Protocol, me included, but I cant see it being written into construction contracts by clients because certain aspects are far too biased towards contractors. It is after all, mainly the clients who determine what will go into construction contracts. If it doesn’t suit them, then they simply wont include it.

As I see it, the Protocol may have raised the profile of planning engineers, but it certainly hasn’t given us more credibility.

Is there a forum area for discussions on this topic?

Gary France

I do agree with Joel.

And sometimes I believe the people who are responsible for shortlisting for some job advertisements are well qualified or not to make a judgement that somebody really qualifies to be short listed or not.

Secondly while the candidates should be careful in negotiating the salary and perks, the companies also should be honest enough to reward well deserved candidates in terms of Expat status etc. But from my personal experience it never happens. And the large multinationals had to employ schedulers/cost controllers from so called third world countries to increase the profit margin.

But as far as the normal duties are concerned there is absolutely no difference between that of a so called western expat and his third country counter part.

This is how the business is run!

If there is any improvement, its of course welcome. But I doubt.

Sobhan

Hi Planners

In terms of getting a job in Australia, I did employed a backpicker and turn her travelling visa into permanent working vias.

It had process invovled but I dont see there is a big cost to it. Its whether the empolyer willingly or not to take the effort to employ someone valuable to the company where they had difficulty locate with the country.

:))

The reason that a lot of these positions in the UK are for UK residents only is due to the sensitive nature of the industries i.e. Nuclear/Defence etc. in which security clearance is required.

It goes without saying that we would not want people from other countries working in them.

Dear All,

Quote: "But in the advt. itself they are filtering out the candidates by using the following statement, only UK/EU residents can apply, even for middle east jobs is discriminating one."
Un quote.

To defend my view refer this Link

Regards

Daya

I think that one of the reasons why there are so many requirements for UK-based planners is because of the Delay and Disruption Protocol issued by the Society of Construction Law. This has given the planning profession more credibility and increased the profile of the profession across the UK (well, at least in Southern Britain!!).

I suggest, taking a long term view, that planners are in a similar position to that of QS’s 20 years ago, when it was essentially a UK profession, but now you can find us everywhere! (even in Alaska!)
Today’s planners are simply ahead of their time! ;-)

Cheers,
Stuart
www.rosmartin.com

Being Territorial animals such as we human are ....there is always the tendency to defend one’s fiefdom or turf.

Just when you thought WTo is working towards breaking down trade barriers world wide, organisation like EC are building up less formal barriers in the form of visa restriction.

While there may be genuine needs to protect the interests of their citizens, the making of archaic laws which are far from transparent and full of unknown pitfalls are possibly geared to frustrate the less informed as appeared to be case in the EC rules. Anyway it is sufficient that they cause additional concern and hassles to warrant Employers and Recruitor prequalifying their advertisement to discourage non EC applicants.

But I still think it is very much a Recruitor initiated thing as they have every reason to prefer candidates demanding a better package, on which their compensation is calculated. Some employers, if not most would not mind considering the best available candidates, from EC or otherwise.

To have a fair chance you probably have to circumvent the recruiters to deal direct with the potential employers.....how ? ..I have no idea...

Well Said Shahzad,

Man never be happy in Heaven too. Good.

Usually when a person wants to apply for a job, he will see that whether he can meet the job requirements or not but if you happen to see more frequently in this forum jobs related ads, saying only UK/EU nationals can apply will make someone more frustration, if you find the candidates are suitable to the job then the employer has to make arrangements to issue visa/work permit. I know that there are lot of restrictions in the visa procedure, but in case of software professionals they are not following it so stringently. The basic question is lot of development activities are on going in UK, then why don’t they recruit planners like other software professionals from non-UK/EU residents.

or else as per Gavin’s comments we can swap planners just for 6 months or so. so that we could have an opportunity to see other parts of the world.

Best Regards

Daya.

Dear Planners

I agree to Gavin. Although there are jobs available in the UK market, but dont get excited looking at the salary which most of the recruiters post. The first thing is that like other countries, the employers will ask for the UK experience which will either make it difficult to get the job or will immediately bring down your salary to may be 25% less or even lower as advertised. Please dont multiply the pound with your currency to check the salary. Its just misguiding.

Everyone knows that there is a huge shortage of doctors in UK and every year thousands of doctors come from india to appear for the PLAB exams here which is pre-requisite to get a job in UK. But would you believe that most of the doctors even though with lot of experience cannot get job for years. With PLAB exam centers all over the world, they are just making money.

The tax in UK are one of the highest in the world which will bring at the end of the month to a salary in which you can hardly live and survive. I wonder that may be sometime soon, the UK government will impose the tax on the oxygen also which we are breathing as on every other thing they are already charging the tax.

As I have worked in middle east and far east, i will say that the quality of life in UK is worst here than other places. I wish like what Gavin said that can we swap our jobs with some hotter countries with very little tax or no tax on the income.

At the end i will say no one is ever satisfied even though how good they are earning.

Wish good luck to all planners who want to come to UK.

Asif

Well if you are interested to go work in the UK why dont you imigrate then.

I can just say welcome to the real world.

Please note it is not just the UK but the same laws apply to most of the world. In fact I can’t think of anywhere in the world this dont apply. (Maybe you can list some country’s)

I think you should go and have a look at USA EOA.


The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 requires employers to assure that employees hired are legally authorized to work in the U.S. However, an employer who requests employment verification only for individuals of a particular national origin, or individuals who appear to be or sound foreign, may violate both Title VII and IRCA; verification must be obtained from all applicants and employees.

Cheers

PS if you want to work in the UK why dont you immigrate ???

Try these links to have a better understanding of the UK immigration law
http://www.workingintheuk.gov.uk/working_in_the_uk/en/homepage/work_perm...?

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/Sh...

It can be not easy also if you are a EU, as no bank will allow you to open a bank account if you did not stay in the contry for at least three months.
You will not get your National Insurance Number if You will not have at least 3 pay slip.
Forget about your Health assurance number, as you will not be entitle to use public fund.

Morning Daya

One of the biggest stipulations on a working visa is that you / company that is willing to sponser you, will not be depriving a UK national or EEC national out of the position.
which from past experience is very hard to prove

Regards
Steve

Dear Members

As the moderator of the Planning Planet has explained, the system in UK is a bit different from other countries whereby almost all the jobs are being advertised/posted by the recruiters and not the employers. Hence these recruiters have live websites which keep on updating the new jobs as it comes. It also happens sometimes that the same job is being advertised by different consultants on different websites which gives the impression of so many jobs. Again such jobs are advertised regularly on different dates which again gives the impression that new jobs are being advertised although these are same jobs which were advertised some time back.

This system is a bit different from other countries whereby mostly the jobs are advertised in newspapers by the employers and not on the websites.

Again the visa regulations in UK are very strict and it is not that easy to get a work permit for non UK/EU residents.

I hope the above clarification will try to justify that why there are so many jobs being advertised on the net are from UK.

Regards

Asif

Dayanidhi Its because of the very strict new very strict immigration laws, for non UK and EEC residents, for instance anyone outside these areas are looking at a min 8 weeks to obtain a work visa

If someone tell me about number of planners available in UK then i would be happy. Most of the positions called for vacancies in UK insisting for UK or EU residents only, why they are not inviting non-UK/EU planners? if they have plenty of job vacancies.