Progress, Schedule & Cost statusing

Hey Gary,



You’re right if you keep the subject in the context of Project Management.



I think i just drifted into dissecting the subject in its simplest form in a more general context, without mentioning it.

Because as far as I remember the concept of a baseline , in the sense of something to which progress could be measured, was in existence before the planning practice started taking form and making its definitions.

Don’t worry I am not a lost soul nor am I confused I was simply attacking the subject from a different point of view. :)

But as you mentioned to Darren, such generalized discussions are probably kept off PP because some people might eventually take it in a literal way.

Good Day

Darren:



Thanks for your support. I’m inclined to agree that I’m on a hiding to nothing here, but PP is there to inform & educate fellow planners, and I can’t in all good conciousness sit back and let people miss-use such basic planning terms as ’progress’ and ’baseline’. If not challenged, some poor junior planner might read this thread and take it as truth with potentially disasterous consequences.



Roland:



By your definition, the term ’baseline’ could mean "planned schedule", "scope", "budget", "cashflow forecast", "engineering specification", "takeover test", "industry norms for Lost Time Injuries", "target profit margin", "last month’s schedule", and so on ad nauseum.



If a PM asks you to show him his project’s baseline, what do you give him?

A baseline is a standard or line by which things are measured or compared..

As long as you can compare to it, its a baseline in the general sense. Now whether in some contexts(..), the baseline has been redefined to mean Qty+bdgt variable defined is another story.. Its a standard story.

Hi Gary,



I think it’s probably time to give up the ghost on this one. I agree 100% with your definitions of progress and planned progress, however, if you also have now have to explain the difference between scope and baselines then you’re on a hiding to nothing here.



Good luck ;o)



Regards,



Darren

Roland,



A 100 brick wall is the scope, not the baseline.



A 100 brick wall in 20 days, and costing £100 would be a baseline.

The following sentence by itself is a baseline on which you base your percentage comparison:

"If the project is to build a brick wall of 100 bricks,... "

Regards

Roland

Roland,



"Progress:

1. Movement, as towards a goal; advance.



And I guess this is the definition Scarlett is more or less depending on."



That definition does not support Scarlett’s position, it supports mine. Scarlett was saying if you do not achieve as much work as planned, then you have made no ’progress’. I am saying even if you do not achieve as much work as planned, as long as you achieve some work, then you are still moving towards your goal of project completion, and hence making progress.





"if you didn’t have a basis or a plan to measure against. How would you know how far have you moved towards your goal? How far have you actually advanced? How would you be able to put that in a percentage form. Per cent of what?"



You can measure progress without a baseline very easily. If the project is to build a brick wall of 100 bricks, and you have layed 50 of those bricks, then you have achieved 50% progress.



If, for example, your baseline said you should have completed all 100 bricks by now, then you would have achieved 50% progress against a planned 100%. So you would not have made as much progress as you should have, but you would have still made some progress.

In that same dictionary you referred to :



Progress:

1. Movement, as towards a goal; advance.



And I guess this is the definition Scarlett is more or less depending on.



After all , if you didn’t have a basis or a plan to measure against. How would you know how far have you moved towards your goal? How far have you actually advanced? How would you be able to put that in a percentage form. Per cent of what?



I guess the best way to figure out which one is the most appropriate is by considering "context".

I guess in the context of planning+scheduling and all what comes with it, the context is clear: You are reporting the progress over a baseline schedule (thats your goal according to the dictionary definition) and when you say X% completed, its X% of the approximated work on your baseline.



Performance is totally different.

Performance is :

5.     performance - process or manner of functioning or operating;

And this includes many variables to be measured which actually indicate how well we performed. how well we executed, the quality as well as the efficiency of the delivery method.



In the construction context , you could have performed well but are in delay. An example would be : a period of interruption within an activity. This would be reported as delay when measuring overall project progress towards its goal(project completion date) but the crew who has executed that activity’s work might have been highly efficient/productive and the final product was indeed of the quality required.



But then again on a higher context, if you ask the question:

"how are we performing in this project" (so on a project context level) performance and progress become highly correlated.

Gary,



I agree with you and disagree with scarlet. I believe scarlet is confusing progress with performance.

Progress is movement towards goal, which can be conditioned with words like ’Overall progress’, ’weekly progress’ or ’monthly progress’. This is a vector quantity which needs direction either positive or negative. Negative can happen sometimes due to us or sometimes not due to us.



regards



M

No Scarlett.



I, and every english dictionary I have ever read, still believe that you are using an incorrect definition of the word ’progress’.



here is a link to the first online english dictionary that came up under google:

Progress



Of particular relevance is the first definition given

" To advance; proceed: Work on the new building progressed at a rapid rate."



If you still think you are right, please provide a link to an online dictionary which backs up your definition of progress as being analogous to "work done faster than planned"



It seems clear to me than English is not your first language, and your missunderstanding on this issue is entirely understandable, but please don’t fire any planners because they have a better understanding of English than you.

G, A and others,



You really don;t know what progress are you talking.



Consider this scenario:



I have gang of workers, say 10 carpenters, 40 laborer, 10 masons,.



at the end of the day they finish 2 sq. m of formworks total area= 2,000sq. m. , 2 sq. m of masonry blocks, total area 4,sq. m..



At the end of the day, as planner you will report to me that there is a progress of say 0.1% for formworks and 0.05% for masonry.



I will fire any planners who will report to me that there is in this case.



since



there is no progress from this gang of workers.



This is very obvious that there is no progress.



What do you think? Are you with me?



Thank you,

Scarlett

No!



Progress should always be objective, measured against criteria agreed at contract award.



The criteria could be considered subjective, but not the progress.



Cheers,



G

Gary,



In other words, Progress is always subjective?



cheers!

Anoon,



Pretty much every construction project falls into this bracket -eg the underground water piping won’t ’work’ until you’ve installed the taps, the oil pipleine won’t ’work’ until you install the pumps, etc



SOmetimes functionality is taken into account via the use of sectional completions, or pre-agreed payment milestones. Most often though, progress is measured & claimed irrespective of overall functionality.



Cheers,



G

I have second thought here, I supposed Scarllet (or Charlie..?) has something not really explained well.



For example: Imagine a work (a system) divided into parts so that a single part will never work on its own.



What would be the progress if you have completed that single part? Is progress measured on its own or you need to consider functionality?

I totally agree with Gary and totally disagree with with Scarllet.



Scarllet - So, in order to achieve "progress" you have to best or equal the plan? Sorry, but in everyone else’s world, even performing 1% toward a goal IS "progress". As far as your "personal life" example, the person may have not have met his goal, but he has made "progress" toward his goal. If "progress" in our lives is measured by whether we exactly achieve a set goal, well, we all might as well stay in bed, because by your definition, if we don’t exactly meet our goal, we are all zeroes.

Scarllet,



We are in agreement that a planner must compare what has actually been achieved to what was planend to be achieved. This is, of course, a fundamental part of a planners duties.



Where we disagree is with your definiton of "progress".

Progress does not mean over-achievement versus the plan.

Progress means movement towards completion.

Progress achieved can be behind, equal to, or ahead of the plan.



If a planner reports zero progress achieved in a given reporting period, he is saying nothing useful has been done at all.



Look up the word "progress" on any online dictionary, and you will see I am right.



It is dangerous to miss-use such terms when trying to enlighten fellow planners, especially if you are a self-proclaimed planning expert!



Cheers,



G

To close this thread,



Simple status of work done is not good enough



Progress as planners thinking should connotes dynamic actions to achieved plans and overall goals.



I hope I contributed something that challenge the mediocare thinking of progress.



Thank you,

Scarlett

G,



you can apply this is personal life.



Say when you are graduating from college, BS Civil Engineering.



Then you plan, say, at the age of 40 years old, I will achieved a savings of say 1M GBP.



however, upon reaching 40 years old, you only manage, say 400,000 GBP, what is the conclusion?



You did not make progress.



Thank you,

Scarlett

G,



Refer to your post #5



Sorry I dont agree.



Can you imagine what if planners will be so simplistic in analysing and reporting progress.



There is no need for primavera or any software,



An elementary pupil can easily compute percent of a portion compared to the whole.



And this is what PP for, to upgrade our understanding of planning fundamental so that elmentary pupil will not replace us, the self proclaim planning experts



Thank you,

Scarlett

Scarlett,



I think you are confusing progress with positive variance.



Progress: The amount of (useful) work done this period

Variance: The difference between actual progress, and planned progress



Cheers,



G

It is for this reason that:



A planner who prepare monthly progress report must see to it that there is a plan, not necessarily a contractual plan or a baseline plan, but any plan that will be use in monitoring and reporting.



If the plan say that by end of October 2009, the total volume of concrete casted will be 600 cu m out of the total volume of 5,000, then the plan is 12%.



And, if the actual volume casted is only 500 cu. m. 10%, then there is no progress since the planned volume was not achieved.



Hence, there is a delay.



and of coure if the actual volume casted is 600 cu. m., the same as what was plan, then you are only on schedule.



And if the actual volume casted is 800 cu. m., 16 % compared to what was planned, 12%, then and then that the time you can say you have progress.



Thank you,

Scarlett

Scarllet,



"How many bricks did you lay this week?"

In this example, "this week" is the reporting period.





"Progress will only happen if you compare what was done, the 10%, compared to what was plan to accomplish up to the data date or reporting period."

This is not correct. Progress has nothing to do with what was planned to be acomplished up to the data date / reporting period.



Did you perhaps mean to say:

"Progress will only happen if you compare what was done up to the previous reporting period, the 10%, compared to what has been completed up to the current data date or reporting period."



That would be correct, though I still think "how many bricks did you lay this week" is a simpler way of saying the same thing!





Cheers,



G

Planning experts



you miss the meaning of progress.



First you have to understand that what you did prior to the data date or reporting period is not progress but status of work done, say, casted concrete volume of 500 cu. m. from the total volume of say 5,000 cu. m.



this 10 % only of the work done. The ten percent is not progress, there is an absent of progress.



Progress will only happen if you compare what was done, the 10%, compared to what was plan to accomplish up to the data date or reporting period.



Thank you,

Scarlett

Progress - Physical work completion



Schedule - Plan + Time -->which determines floats and project end dates



Cost- Amount invested or spent on accomplishing a particular job

Progress: How many bricks did you lay this week?



Schedule: How long will it take you to lay the rest?



Cost: How many man-hours did/will you spend on it?