Darren:

Thanks for your support. I’m inclined to agree that I’m on a hiding to nothing here, but PP is there to inform & educate fellow planners, and I can’t in all good conciousness sit back and let people miss-use such basic planning terms as ’progress’ and ’baseline’. If not challenged, some poor junior planner might read this thread and take it as truth with potentially disasterous consequences.

Roland:

By your definition, the term ’baseline’ could mean "planned schedule", "scope", "budget", "cashflow forecast", "engineering specification", "takeover test", "industry norms for Lost Time Injuries", "target profit margin", "last month’s schedule", and so on ad nauseum.

If a PM asks you to show him his project’s baseline, what do you give him?

Hi Gary,

I think it’s probably time to give up the ghost on this one. I agree 100% with your definitions of progress and planned progress, however, if you also have now have to explain the difference between scope and baselines then you’re on a hiding to nothing here.

Good luck ;o)

Regards,

Darren

The following sentence by itself is a baseline on which you base your percentage comparison:
"If the project is to build a brick wall of 100 bricks,... "
Regards
Roland

In that same dictionary you referred to :

Progress:
1. Movement, as towards a goal; advance.

And I guess this is the definition Scarlett is more or less depending on.

After all , if you didn’t have a basis or a plan to measure against. How would you know how far have you moved towards your goal? How far have you actually advanced? How would you be able to put that in a percentage form. Per cent of what?

I guess the best way to figure out which one is the most appropriate is by considering "context".
I guess in the context of planning+scheduling and all what comes with it, the context is clear: You are reporting the progress over a baseline schedule (thats your goal according to the dictionary definition) and when you say X% completed, its X% of the approximated work on your baseline.

Performance is totally different.
Performance is :
5.     performance - process or manner of functioning or operating;
And this includes many variables to be measured which actually indicate how well we performed. how well we executed, the quality as well as the efficiency of the delivery method.

In the construction context , you could have performed well but are in delay. An example would be : a period of interruption within an activity. This would be reported as delay when measuring overall project progress towards its goal(project completion date) but the crew who has executed that activity’s work might have been highly efficient/productive and the final product was indeed of the quality required.

But then again on a higher context, if you ask the question:
"how are we performing in this project" (so on a project context level) performance and progress become highly correlated.

No Scarlett.

I, and every english dictionary I have ever read, still believe that you are using an incorrect definition of the word ’progress’.

here is a link to the first online english dictionary that came up under google:
Progress

Of particular relevance is the first definition given
" To advance; proceed: Work on the new building progressed at a rapid rate."

If you still think you are right, please provide a link to an online dictionary which backs up your definition of progress as being analogous to "work done faster than planned"

It seems clear to me than English is not your first language, and your missunderstanding on this issue is entirely understandable, but please don’t fire any planners because they have a better understanding of English than you.

No!

Progress should always be objective, measured against criteria agreed at contract award.

The criteria could be considered subjective, but not the progress.

Cheers,

G

Anoon,

Pretty much every construction project falls into this bracket -eg the underground water piping won’t ’work’ until you’ve installed the taps, the oil pipleine won’t ’work’ until you install the pumps, etc

SOmetimes functionality is taken into account via the use of sectional completions, or pre-agreed payment milestones. Most often though, progress is measured & claimed irrespective of overall functionality.

Cheers,

G

I totally agree with Gary and totally disagree with with Scarllet.

Scarllet - So, in order to achieve "progress" you have to best or equal the plan? Sorry, but in everyone else’s world, even performing 1% toward a goal IS "progress". As far as your "personal life" example, the person may have not have met his goal, but he has made "progress" toward his goal. If "progress" in our lives is measured by whether we exactly achieve a set goal, well, we all might as well stay in bed, because by your definition, if we don’t exactly meet our goal, we are all zeroes.

To close this thread,

Simple status of work done is not good enough

Progress as planners thinking should connotes dynamic actions to achieved plans and overall goals.

I hope I contributed something that challenge the mediocare thinking of progress.

Thank you,
Scarlett

G,

Refer to your post #5

Sorry I dont agree.

Can you imagine what if planners will be so simplistic in analysing and reporting progress.

There is no need for primavera or any software,

An elementary pupil can easily compute percent of a portion compared to the whole.

And this is what PP for, to upgrade our understanding of planning fundamental so that elmentary pupil will not replace us, the self proclaim planning experts

Thank you,
Scarlett

It is for this reason that:

A planner who prepare monthly progress report must see to it that there is a plan, not necessarily a contractual plan or a baseline plan, but any plan that will be use in monitoring and reporting.

If the plan say that by end of October 2009, the total volume of concrete casted will be 600 cu m out of the total volume of 5,000, then the plan is 12%.

And, if the actual volume casted is only 500 cu. m. 10%, then there is no progress since the planned volume was not achieved.

Hence, there is a delay.

and of coure if the actual volume casted is 600 cu. m., the same as what was plan, then you are only on schedule.

And if the actual volume casted is 800 cu. m., 16 % compared to what was planned, 12%, then and then that the time you can say you have progress.

Thank you,
Scarlett

Planning experts

you miss the meaning of progress.

First you have to understand that what you did prior to the data date or reporting period is not progress but status of work done, say, casted concrete volume of 500 cu. m. from the total volume of say 5,000 cu. m.

this 10 % only of the work done. The ten percent is not progress, there is an absent of progress.

Progress will only happen if you compare what was done, the 10%, compared to what was plan to accomplish up to the data date or reporting period.

Thank you,
Scarlett

Progress: How many bricks did you lay this week?

Schedule: How long will it take you to lay the rest?

Cost: How many man-hours did/will you spend on it?