Website Upgrade Incoming - we're working on a new look (and speed!) standby while we deliver the project

Tips on using this forum..

(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?

(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.

Recovery Program to Original Program

18 replies [Last post]
Sat, 2005-06-18 04:55
X Planner
User offline. Last seen 9 years 20 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Posts: 78
Groups: None
Guys,

I developed a construction program for group of hotels to be constructed at the same time and that program has been progressed, since the contractore slipped and went ways behind the schedule and due to some activities went out of sequence , then schedule started to give non-realistic percentages.
therefore we forced the subcontractors to develope a program for the remaining works starting from the current situation with some changes in the sequence.

my question now is...how am i supposed to report the total actual percent of completion (old program & recovery program) against the planned percent

in other meaning what will be the relation between the old program and the recovery one???

at some point can i depend only on the recovery program results or i will always need to refer to the old program
??

thanks in advance
Top

Replies

Wed, 2005-08-24 08:51
#1
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
User offline. Last seen 14 years 4 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2 Jun 2005
Posts: 299
Groups: GPC Malaysia, Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas
Hi Planner Planner,
This is my suggestion, If already loose your track, what u should do is by doing matrix measurement, from there u could get the progress for reporting but litle bit tedious, In mean time u should do recovery programme and resubmit to the client for acceptance , include reason of impact in your schedule that cause of delay.
Top
Wed, 2005-08-24 08:48
#2
Roberto Jr Bustos
User offline. Last seen 1 year 16 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 30
Groups: Pinoy Planning Planet Community
Hi there again,

I think the point there is not whether forcing the subcontractor to follow something is valid or not. Assuming its valid then those posted previously were the ideas of our colleagues.

However, its may not be proper to address it as "forcing", it can be "requiring".

Mr. Charleston’s point is true depending on the situation and contract condition.

In cases of a common general contractor-subcontractor agreement, the main contractor always have the right to "require" their subcon to implement the contract programme and any "revision", "update" (either as recovery or accelaration) as usually stated as sub-clause of the main programme clause.

Recovery or accelaration, there’s no difference in the clarification of Mr. Planner since the only question there is how to present a more realistic progress/status of the project. In which, most of us gave their ideas. Nothing wrong, we’re in a discussion:)

Good day guys!

Top
Wed, 2005-08-24 07:54
#3
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 3 years 48 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Hello everyone,

Please re-evaluate te premise at the start of the thread.

Place importance on the statement "therefore we forced the subcontractors to develop a program for the remaining works ..."..

There is an element of contract law called a.) Under Duress b.) Undue Influence. While it is not specific what "forced" was used, in the event that the force involve criminal threat then this falls in the category "Under Duress" or in the event that force involve the nature of the position of one party to influence the other party, then this falls under the category "Undue Influence".

As a consequence of this event (Under Duress or Undue Influence"), one party was forced "against his will" to arrive at a recovery program with the knowledge that it was not realistic. THE RECOVERY PROGRAM THAT WAS FORWARDED IS NOT CONTRACTUALLY BINDING TO BOTH PARTIES.

In this case why proceed to compare progress of the recovery program when contractually it has no relevance to both parties. Or, why bother for a recovery program that is not contractually enforceable.

The comparison is just a mathematical exercise. The formula maybe correct or wrong is immaterial. The exercise is just a waste of time. Nobody is serious.
Top
Wed, 2005-08-24 06:54
#4
Roberto Jr Bustos
User offline. Last seen 1 year 16 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 30
Groups: Pinoy Planning Planet Community
Hi Roger,

I agree with how "just me" compute the progress. Portion of the balance plus the last progress before the recovery.

You have the original which is now delayed. From the original, you prepared a recovery by changing the logic of the balance of the programme to still achieve the forecast completion of the original.

For your working file, your original will still be the baseline, your recovery will be your 2nd baseline, a copy of your recovery will be your current or your update.

1. Plan % will be from the 1st baseline.
2. You can have revised planned % from your recovery (2nd baseline),
3. actual% will be from the copy of the recovery which you update every cutoff date.

This is for you, to monitor the performance of the recovery progamme if its going along to what is planned for recovery.

Now to give the management the status, plan% should still be from the original baseline, actual is from the update of the recovery.

Its better not to show the plan from the 2nd baseline to avoid confusion unless they asked for your planned% from your recovery.

Hope this helps also:)
Top
Wed, 2005-08-24 02:52
#5
ulysses garcia
User offline. Last seen 14 years 21 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 259
Groups: GPC Qatar
I want to share my experience related to recovery program...

Original program has its own field of date of completion, on the other hand you need to remember a recovery plan may defer or may not on the date of completion.
The best way to do is, if you made a recovery program you must stick to it as a new baseline of your schedule as to what commitment to a new date to finish the job
Top
Tue, 2005-06-21 06:09
#6
X Planner
User offline. Last seen 9 years 20 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Posts: 78
Groups: None
that is what i meant Jaco and that is what i do ...

somehow they r conveinced but i thought i might find

another way for reporting.

what do u guys think?
Top
Tue, 2005-06-21 05:31
#7
Jaco Stadler
User offline. Last seen 18 years 36 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
Posts: 299
Groups: None
Overall Progress Calc is

Total Actual % todate = 55% + (18%*45%)
Total Planned % todate = 55% + (20%*45%)

Planned from Original = ...
Planned Recovery = 64 %
Actual to Date = 63.1 %


I Personnally Prefer an Other Method and That is to have my Recovery Schedule Report back into My activity’s of My Original Schedule. (Earned value).

Is you recovery schedule not the same Activity’s just with Shorter Duration & Other resources with logic veraince.

Cheers





Top
Tue, 2005-06-21 04:33
#8
X Planner
User offline. Last seen 9 years 20 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Posts: 78
Groups: None
Guys looking at my example,

IMHO, i cannot give that figuers like Roger said cos it doesnot represent the whole picture since it belongs to a remaining works program,

but what i’m thinking of is

according to the last update(old program) the Actual% was 55% so i will start from here,
according to the remaining program the Actual% is 18% and the PLanned % is 20% so can we say that the overall %’s are as follows:
Total Actual % todate = 55% + 18%

Total Planned % todate = 55% + 20%

what do u think??
Top
Mon, 2005-06-20 14:23
#9
Philip Jonker
User offline. Last seen 16 years 29 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 7 Nov 2004
Posts: 852
Groups: None
Hi PLanner,

What was interesting today, was another experienced planner, and myself went for a site walk, (he works for the client), and the main topic of discussion was how to present progress, the issue being is that management in general do not understand the topic, and as a result you have to find ways of presenting the facts. The solution is to educate them into understanding the methods of obtaining progress, and make sure they are comfortable with the system. Thus you can obviate the most basic problem of panic when they perceive things incorrectly.
Once you have gone to the stage of re-scheduling, the panic starts, and it is a pshycological game until you get them out of the panic mode.

Hope you have a good psychology book on hand

Regards
Top
Mon, 2005-06-20 10:46
#10
Joy Fernandes
User offline. Last seen 9 years 35 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 10
Groups: None
Hi Planner,
Convince your top management about your present situation, quantify your delay and "force " the top management to accept your recovery schedule to report progress.

Be practical and project the facts.

Regards.
Top
Mon, 2005-06-20 09:53
#11
Jihad Daniel
User offline. Last seen 9 years 15 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 7 May 2005
Posts: 99
Groups: None

Dear Planner(sq),

You cannot confuse your Top Management and be clear and confident that actual progress is as per the remaining works’schedule, as indicated by Roger, which is reflecting the actual realistic factual situation.

Regards,
J. Daniel
Top
Mon, 2005-06-20 09:31
#12
Roger Gibson
User offline. Last seen 7 years 39 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 1 Jun 2001
Posts: 71
Groups: Building Information Modelling
Blockwork progress for ’top management’,

Actual 18%
Planned 20%

Roger
Top
Mon, 2005-06-20 03:20
#13
X Planner
User offline. Last seen 9 years 20 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Posts: 78
Groups: None
I agree with u guys
Roger is Correct...

but when it comes to the Top Management they might be confused when u show them 4 percentages for two program.

i thought we might find a way to relate the percentages of the old program to the new one and finally give them something says...we supposed to be here but unfortiontly we r there.

example:

Old Program Remaining works program
Planned% Actual % Planned% Actual%
Blockwork 70 55 20 18

now if i want to represent the total progress of the blockwork todate in one figure..is it possible?

Top
Sun, 2005-06-19 14:27
#14
Philip Jonker
User offline. Last seen 16 years 29 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 7 Nov 2004
Posts: 852
Groups: None
Hi,

Roger is quite correct, however, if you have agreed a recovery schedule, this is what you should be evaluating the progres against. I have one difficulty with you original posting, you use the word forced, the point is you cannot force a three inch piston through a two in cylinder. The thing to do is be practical, if you have lost time, quantify it and if you have to live with the problem accept it, or otherwise you will have to pay the price, hence my answer in the first place. There is no magic wands in this business, so work out the best solution, unfortunately that is the job of the planner.

Regards
Top
Sun, 2005-06-19 04:09
#15
Roger Gibson
User offline. Last seen 7 years 39 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 1 Jun 2001
Posts: 71
Groups: Building Information Modelling
Report against both programmes.

The original programme was the original intent,so report actual progress achieved against planned at the same data date.

The contractors recovery programme, is his programme to recover time (for whatever reason). Again, report actual progress achieved against planned at the same data date.

The forecast completion date of the recovery programme should be used as the ’best’ anticipated finish date for the project.
Top
Sun, 2005-06-19 03:20
#16
Azvi Hanifa
User offline. Last seen 19 years 21 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 14
Groups: GPC Qatar
If slippage treading to adverse condition, it is required to revised the schedule, prior to revised, there will be many factor to be take in to account. Like contractual impact, time, capacity of contractor, construction methodology, construction management etc.

For revise, u has to site with the subcontractor’s management and discusses and find out realistic recovery options and revised your master program.

If management does not except you recovery program, u can used recovery as monitoring program, while reporting u can show both.


Good luck

Top
Sun, 2005-06-19 02:53
#17
X Planner
User offline. Last seen 9 years 20 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Posts: 78
Groups: None
philip,

i’m talking about planning issue, how do u keep reporting even if u changed sequence ..nothing about the software
Top
Sat, 2005-06-18 12:58
#18
Philip Jonker
User offline. Last seen 16 years 29 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 7 Nov 2004
Posts: 852
Groups: None
Don’t believe the software think for yourself
Top