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MEP 1st ,2nd,3rd Fix ...

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Arun Vasanth
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Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 196
Groups: GPC Qatar
Dear planners
Could any one which are the items comming in
MEP 1st fix ,MEP 2nd fix & MEP 3rd fix ????
Elctrical 1st fix ---
Elctrical 2nd fix ---
Elctrical 3rd fix .....

Same Plumbing & HAVAC

I knw the things but classification Im consufused ???

With regards
Arun.V

Replies

suru kadam
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Hi can you please send me MEP Baeline Programme on my mail id kadam246@gmail.com 

 

Mike Testro
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Hi Rola

Risers are the vertical shafts that hold the MEP services.

If the risers house different services then the order is usually:

Duct > Pipe > Cables.

The risers have to be weathertight before installation.

Horizontal services are fixed under the ceiling or on top of the floor in the same order as the risers.

Risers and horizontals can be installed independantly and connected together when both are in place.

Best regards

Mike Testro
Ferdinand U.
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Posts: 142
hi

From our work here,

for Risers w/o Access Doors, you can start earlier as long as the access to the top floor is safe and platforms and motors and lift ropes are fixed. Note that maybe not all floors are open for shafts to reduce the closure of blockwork. But in most cases, since the work is easier if top to bottom, we wait for access on mechanical floor before starting the risers.
Samer Zawaydeh
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Posts: 1664
Dear Ferdinand,

What you have stated is correct. Risers with Access Doors are finished from inside. Whereas, Risers without access are not finished from inside.

Generally, all the work (per system) inside the Riser is considered as one unit. And partial completion is determined as per approved inspection requests.

With kind regards,

Samer
Ferdinand U.
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Posts: 142
Hi risers usually start if shafts are safe to work with and all the prefinish like plaster and primer are done.

if its a high rise building, you can fix it top to bottom for piping and duct riser.

since the team can fix more than 1 floor per day, you can group the activity as Riser 10F to 8F(example only) linked from completion of piping and testing of 10F

this is only suggestion, others may do riser work in parallel with floor services work if you are in a rush (i think, and have enough manpower)
Samer Zawaydeh
User offline. Last seen 3 years 13 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 3 Aug 2008
Posts: 1664
Dear Rola,

I would recommend that you number your Risers (i.e, 1E, 2E, 3E,... for Electrical Risers, 1M, 2M, 3M... for Mechanical risers).

Then you need to sit down with your Electrical and Mechanical Site Engineers and ask them to list all the networks that will pass in each riser. Or, for simplicity purposes, you can give them a matrix and they can check it. The row can identify the system and the columns can identify the Riser number.

For Example:

Riser 1M
Plumbing Works
Marking
Support System installation
Piping installation
Piping testing
Pipe marking

HVAC works
Marking
Support System installation
Duct installation
Duct Insulation
Duct Testing
Duct Marking

Fire Fighting System
Marking
Support System installation
Pipe installation
Pipe testing
Pipe painting
Pipe marking

With kind regards,

Samer
Rola Sabbah
User offline. Last seen 4 years 51 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 5 Dec 2009
Posts: 61
Dear samer,
thank you so much for these info, but i need a little more help.
im planning a hotel, my wbs is divided into floors, each floor has : concrete works, MEP, and finishes.
MEP is divided into : Elec, Mech, Plumbing.
each of them has pipes and stuff but my project manager wants me to include risers how will add this activity?
for example:
Elect.: install cable trays
install cables
then what? connect to risers? or risers are connected later after finishing all floors.

thanx you guys you all rock
Samer Zawaydeh
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Joined: 3 Aug 2008
Posts: 1664
Dear Rola,

In addition to what Mike has said, here is more information:

Q: what is coordinated E/M?
A: Coordinated Electro Mechanical Drawings are drawings that have all the requirements on one drawing. You need this drawing in order to coordinate the locations in the ceilings most of the time. That is, you do not want to have the lighting fixture under an HVAC machine in a 40cm clear distance above false ceiling. Because the HVAC machine is 37cm high and the suspension system need 7cm. And the smallest lighting fixture would be 6-7cm as well.


Q: activities for plumbing? its not in the ceiling right?what about i walls and ground systems?
A: Activities for plumbing can be in the ceiling if the fill under the tiles is less than 15cm. This is usually the case in office buildings, Parking lots and Malls. The Civil Designer wants to reduce the dead load, and the drainage is usually 4" or more, so you need at least 110mm wihtout any slope in the piping. Hence, the plumbing for Office Buildings and Malls are in Ceiling not under tiles like the residential buildings.

Q: what is the riasers? and how is it connected?
A: Risers or shafts are enclosures made in walls to house the vertical cable ladders for electrical system or Vertical piping for mechanical systems.

Q: what do you mean conduits per systme?
A: PVC conduits are used to protect Electrical wires in slabs and walls. And Metal pipes are used to protect electrical wires in surface mounted connected in mechanical and electrical rooms.

With kind regards,

Samer
Mike Testro
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Posts: 4356
Hi Rola

You are asking for a three volume novel to set out everything that you ask for.

Most of what you seek has already been adressed on the PP forum so I would suggest that you use the search facility.

Some mebers will probably give you useful web site links where you can learn a great deal more.

Actually MEP is very simple to understand - you don’t have to know how it is done - just bear these few things in mind:

There are three substances:

1. Air
2. Liquid
3. Electricity

These are contained in

1. Ducts
2. Pipes
3. Cables

Ducts Pipes and cables are connected to a piece of kit at one end and another piece of kit at the other.

To make the connections the ducts pipes and cables are placed in riser spaces to go vertically and floor or ceiling voids to go horizontally

From the end peice of kit there are local distribution routes that connect to an appliance - these may be placed in the wall as well as the ceiling and floor voids.

The dificult bit is the many trade interfaces between the MEP contractor and all the other trade packages and very few planners even try to put it on the programme.

Best regards

Mike Testro
Rola Sabbah
User offline. Last seen 4 years 51 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 5 Dec 2009
Posts: 61
hi
this is great stuff, im civil and i don’t know about these things, can continue please?
what is coordinated E/M? activities for plumbing? its not in the ceiling right?what about i walls and ground systems?
what is the riasers? and how is it connected? what do you mean conduits per systme?

please give me the whole picture this is so usefull
thanx again
Arun Vasanth
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Posts: 196
Groups: GPC Qatar
Sameer
U r great.. Thxs alot .....

With regards
Arun.V
Shahul Badhusha
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Thanks samer this is very much detailed and lucid
Samer Zawaydeh
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Dear Arun,

During the core and shell construction phase, you will have E/M 1st fix services in Slabs only.

I would recommend that you show the following activities in your Schedule:

1. Material Submittals.
1.1 Electrical
1.1.a PVC Conduits and accessories.
1.1.b Cables.
1.1.c Cable Trayes
... etc: please go through the BOQ and specifications and list all the requirements.

1.2 Mechanical
1.2.a. UPVC pipes and accessories
1.2.b. CPVC pipes and accessories
1.2.c. Galvanized sheets
1.2.d. Balck steel pipes and accessories
... etc: please go through the BOQ and specifications and list all the requirements.

2. Shop drawings
2.1. Electrical
2.1.1 Lighting system per floor
2.1.2 Power system per floor
2.1.3 Telephone and data system per floor
2.1.4 Security and Cameras system per floor
2.1.5 Fire Alarm system per floor
etc

2.2 Mechanical
2.2.1 Water Supply system per floor
2.2.2 Water Drainage system per floor
2.2.3 Fire Fighting systemssystem per floor
2.2.4 HVAC system per floor
etc

2.3 Coordinated ElectroMechanical

3. Procurement: Please remember that you can not start construction without material at site.
3.1. Electrical: List all the approved material and the Estimated time of arrival at site
3.2. Mechanical: List all the approved material and the Estimated time of arrival at site

Once you have the material and shop drawings approved, then you can start the construction in the slabs, walls and sometimes floors.

It seems that you job is turn key and not core and shell only. That is why you are asking about the 1st, 2nd and 3rd fix. Usually the following sequence is used for these types of projects after the core and shell are completed.

Horizontal Elements
Ceiling:
A. Mechanical
1. HVAC (per floor)
1.1 Marking of Ducting Route
1.2 Installation of Ducting Supports
1.3 Installation of Ducting
1.4 Testing of Ducting
1.5 Insulation of Ducting
2. Fire Fighting
2.1 Marking of Black Steel Piping Route
2.2 Installation of Black Steel Piping Supports
2.3 Installation of Black Steel Piping
2.4 Testing of Black Steel Piping
2.5 Painting of Black Steel Piping
3. Plumbing
Repeat same as above

Floors:
Usually you have Plumbing required only for kitchens and bathrooms (as needed)

B. Electrical
1. Cable Trays
2.1 Marking of Cable TraysRoute
2.2 Installation of Cable TraysSupports
2.3 Installation of Cable Trays
2.4 Installation of Cables

2. Conduits (per system per floor)

Vertical Elements (shafts)
Mechanical
Electrical.

You also need to have a separate activity for the Electrical and Mechanical room per floor.

I hope that you benefit from the information. If you need more details, please let me know. I would like to know how you proceed in the future as well.

With kind regards,

Samer
Arun Vasanth
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Sameer
Its a 45 storeyed building ....
Samer Zawaydeh
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Posts: 1664
Dear Arun,

You need to review the drawings and understand the construction process. You will also need to differntiate between ceilings, walls and floors.

In some projects, you have up to 17 different Electro Mechanical System, and you need to review each of them by location and coordinate the installation with the other Works at site.

Give us an idea about the project that you are working on and we will try to assist you in more details.

With kind regards,

Samer
Shahul Badhusha
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you r most welcome
Arun Vasanth
User offline. Last seen 2 years 10 weeks ago. Offline
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Groups: GPC Qatar
Thank you Shahul..
Thanxs PP
Shahul Badhusha
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Posts: 785
Check this one and any more question you could post over here for discussion

http://www.planningplanet.com/forum/forum_post.asp?fid=&Cat=1&Top=64186