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hi ,
I am new in Primavera P6, I am facing problem in allocating overtime to an activity.
Suppose i have one activity which is of 5 days, and worker normal working is 8h/d , and one resource work on this activity whose rate is $100/h . So total cost of this resource is $4000/5day . If on 5 days this resource work for 2h overtime , total overtime working hour is 10h/5days. Rate for overtime working is $200/h . So total overtime cost is $2000/5days .So total cost for 5 days is 4000+2000=$6000/5days Now where to
1) Define overtime rate (i.e $200/h) in Primavera P6....?
2) How to see total $6000/5days in Primavera P6...?
Kindly guide inputs in primavera P6 regarding Overtime allocation.
Regards
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Arend,
It is obvious I was never proficient in P6, it was so cumbersome we used it only as a contractual requirement creating our jobs using old P3. But to make sure we understand each other please run the following simple job where two activities are competing for the overtime of resource A for which there is only one unit available. Note there is a FF link from activity 2 to activity 1 and that the regular 8 hours on activity A shall always be followed by 2 overtime hours, say it is a concrete pouring operation that after 8 hours require some finishing work during overtime hours.
As you can see the job initially before leveling is over allocated so you shall run a resource leveling and let us know how it comes out, I would appreciate if you can post a similar figure after leveling.
BTW I am finding the only way to get results you can trust is by modeling the resource as a single resource.
Best Regards,
Rafael
Second option is to model a resource with normal working hours and a sub-resource that has the overtime hours and rates. Give both a resource calendar with the requested hours. No overtime allowed or overtime factor is needed. Together the resource has 12 hours per day. An activity will then need both resources added .
But this requires activity to be resource dependent type. NO , in the contrary!
It will be scheduled to occur whenever the resources are available. No, you are mistaken. They follow the calendar
on activities and resources that are planned to use overtime.
But it might happen the overtime resource is being used by other activities so it will be scheduled on the intended activity latter when available. No, it does not. because it follows the calendar. This basic scheduling. As well as there are limited resources there is also limitied overtime available. Scheduling and Leveling works perfect.
This does not meets the requirement for the resource work be continuous during the same day and can yield wrong/unexpected results when multiple activities are competing at the same time for the overtime resource.
No. Resource work will be continuous.
And as said before; it gives you a perfect overview of your costs.
I no longer use P6 but from what I recall shift modeling was very limited, unless new versions have been upgraded in this regard. maybe this subject is beyond your knowledge, but please ask if you want me to explain.
Primaver might not be the easiest planning program to use.
"no, the activity will be done first thing in the morning by the 'normal time resource'"
If overtime resource has working hours from 6pm to 8pm then an activity cannot be done first time in the morning by overtime resource. And even if it will be done overtime resource has larger hour rate than necessary in the morning.
If normal time resource was not assigned then an activity will not be done in the normal time. If it was assigned then this resource was planned to work in overtime hours?
If both resources were assigned then both shall work or Primavera permits to assign a resource and perform an activity without using this resource at all?
Second option is to model a resource with normal working hours and a sub-resource that has the overtime hours and rates. Give both a resource calendar with the requested hours. No overtime allowed or overtime factor is needed. Together the resource has 12 hours per day. An activity will then need both resources added .
But this requires activity to be resource dependent type. It will be scheduled to occur whenever the resources are available. But it might happen the overtime resource is being used by other activities so it will be scheduled on the intended activity latter when available. This does not meets the requirement for the resource work be continuous during the same day and can yield wrong/unexpected results when multiple activities are competing at the same time for the overtime resource.
I no longer use P6 but from what I recall shift modeling was very limited, unless new versions have been upgraded in this regard.
Back to the original question of planning guy:
Where to assign the overtime rate: in the details tab of the resource screen is at the bottom an option to set the overtime factor.
In his example that would be two.
The second question where can you see the amount?
You can see that in the resource usage spread sheet in your activities screen or in the Tracking view that you can select under ‘Enterprise” to get more views on units or costs
How to model
Like I said before; in P6 philosophy there is no thing like ‘planned overtime’ in P6. You are supposed to create a planning that fits it all.
There are two options
A. Create a resource and create a shift calendar with appropriate times ie
Shift1: 07.00-16.00 and shift 2: 16.00-19.00 and give both shifts their rates in the units& prices tab of the resource screen.
Plan your activity concrete pouring for 12 hours, add the resource.
Your resource will work from 7.00 till 19.00 and cost you 1500. (9x100 + 3x200)
When you give the poor man a lunch break in your resource calender your activty must take 11 hours and will cost you 1400. = budgetted labor cost
There will be no difference between normal cost and overtime cost.
B. Second option is to model a resource with normal working hours and a sub-resource that has the overtime hours and rates. Give both a resource calendar with the requested hours.
No overtime allowed or overtime factor is needed. Together the resource has 12 hours per day.
An activity will then need both resources added .
The advantage of this way is that you have an excellent overview of your normal and overtime costs as they are mentioned separately in the tracking view.
Dear Vladimir,
no, the activity will be done first thing in the morning by the 'normal time resource'
Regards,
Arend
Dear Arend,
let's consider simple example.
Some activity in the current schedule has one hour duration and was planned for overtime hours. So we will assign overtime resource that for an example works from 6pm to 8pm.
When rescheduling this activity could be delayed to the next morning but since overtime resource works only after 6pm it will be delayed until 6pm.
Is it true or I don't understand something in P6 resource scheduling?
Best Regards,
Vladimir
planned overtime' does not exist in P6
But this is common at my workplace, we plan overtime work ahead of schedule, it is a physical requirement on many activities such as continuous concrete pouring and at another times it is more efficient to use some overtime on resources such as equipment.
Once you add an extra 'overtime resource' you do not have to delete him after an update of the schedule because you do NOT put the overtime hours on the original resource but on the overtime resource. ...You then have a resource that has the normal work time and one that has the overtime hours. (and costs)
This approach of using different resources not working at the same time requires modeling of shifts and can be mimicked using Spider Project but unnecessary better use a single resource with overtime calendars.
Still I understand with regard to modeling of shifts it is inefficient in P6 and frequently worked around in several ways; like using separate activities to model shift work on the same activity, or by using Bucket Planning, a manual procedure, that is erased every time you resource level your job.
I wonder how you can model this on the same activity in P6 other than using Bucket Planning that is erased every time you resource level your job.
Theres got to be an easier way than creating hundreds of extra overtime resources, easier than requiring modeling of shifts or using Bucket Planning. I got to be missing something.
Maybe it is TRUE that planned overtime does not exists on P6.
Dear Vladimir,
I appreciate your serious and very constructive analysis of my previous post.
Once you add an extra 'overtime resource' you do not have to delete him after an update of the schedule because you do NOT put the overtime hours on the original resource but on the overtime resource.
You then have a resource that has the normal worktime and one that has the overtime hours. (and costs)
If you choose a logical name an structure in the resource database the costs will easily add up in an overview.
Kind regards,
Arend
But it is so simple, just use overtime calendar cost superposition as in the following example. Any hour over regular work hours is 2x while at regular lunch time is 3x. Take a look at resource A, as per local laws he is scheduled to work during his regular lunch hour this is at 3x = 60$ if his regular rate is 20$/hour, during the eight regular hours the 20$/hour rate is applied and over 8 regular hours it is at 2x rate = 40$/hr.
Employees may not be required to work during a break period, break periods are paid by the employer as if work time contrary to meal time that is not considered work time but if required to work will be payable at 3x rate.
It happens every day here, any serious software shall be able to model such an everyday event, there must be a way. It does not only happens during concrete pours but on some activities that are scheduled to work overtime because it at times saves money. We usually work some equipment during overtime hours because the total costs and project duration savings offset the extra labor overtime costs.
Dear Arend,
do I understand correctly your proposal:
Calculate project schedule using overtime hours in resource calendar, then look at the schedule and add additional resource (actually cost) assignment everywhere where overtime is used (manually).
When the project shall be rescheduled (after entering actuals for example) delete these assignments, schedule the project, look at the scheduling results and again manually add overtime resource (cost) assignments. And repeat this process every time when rescheduling is needed.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Primavera does not give you something like 'costs for budgetted overtime' because 'budgetted / planned overtime' does not exist in P6 philosophy. You are supposed to create a schedule where resources are not overallocated.
So you can get a figure on overallocation hours or units but not on costs.
In P6 you do get your costs after updating your schedule and applying actuals on activities with overtime visible.
If you absolutely want a figure on overtime costs beforehand you have to create a resource that has the overtime rate you want and add that to your activity.
Regards,
Arend
In P6 you can indicate the overtime price by means of overtime factor which is available in details tab of a resource under currency and overtime sub tab. This overtime factor would be number of times of normal rate. So in your example, you can specify normal price in price/unit as 100$/H in units & prices tab and specify overtime factor to be 2 so that the rate for overtime would be 2 times of normal rate i.e. 200$/H would be considered while calculating the actual cost of the activity.
With regard to cost, you need to first specify overtime and normal units saperately in 'Actual Regular units' and 'Actual Overtime Units.' If you have selected 'calculate cost from units' option while defining the resource, P6 would calcalate costs based on the units multiplied by cost. The calculation would be like:
Actual cost = actual regular unit X price/unit + Actual Overtime Units X Price/unit X Overtime factor.
Hope this clarifies....
Assigning 10 hours resource calendar will not solve the problem because resource rate is different at different hours during the day.
Assigning additional resources will not help also for many reasons. One of them - it is not known before scheduling which activity will require overtime work and in what amount. Example: if an activity starts at 8:00 it may require 8 hours of overtime work and will be finished at the end of regular work day on fifth day. But if it starts at 10:00 then required overtime will become 10 hours because resources will use overtime at fifth day.
I don't know the way for modeling overtime rates in P6.
Let's hope that somebody found the solution and will share it with us.
In my Knowledge there is 2 ways, either you create another resources & assign for 2 hrs to work or else create calander which assign 10 hrs for work, it will solve your problem.
I'm also having the same doubt.. please clarify this...
Email: PPadmin@planningplanet.com
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