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Tips on using this forum..

(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?

(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.

Construction of District Cooling Plant

15 replies [Last post]
A D
User offline. Last seen 3 years 24 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 1027
Hi Guys,

Has somebody worked on Construction works for District Cooling Plant? I need some documentation or methodology or some write-up regarding the construction methodology including lead time for chillers, Cooling Towers, Pumps, Filters, Compressors etc.

I dont want a ten liner from somebody telling me the components of District Cooling Plant and neither i m looking for routine Civil and MEP works. Nor am i looking for suggestions to speak with Manufacturer’s like york or someone else. I have the manufacturer’s details but it is going to take time to get everything.

If somebody has done it before or know the critical components plz do let me know ASAP

Cheers,

Ravi

Replies

Pacifico Pallasigui
User offline. Last seen 11 years 47 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 62
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thank you to all
A D
User offline. Last seen 3 years 24 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 1027
Here are some more tips in continuation with Shahul’s post:

10. MEP installations

10.1 Pipeworks
10.1.1 Chilled Water Line
10.1.2 Condenser Water Line
10.1.3 Make-up pipes for Cooling Tower

10.2 Equipment Installation Works
10.2.01 Chiller Modules (Show separate WBS for each module. T&C will be done in sequence for each module)
10.2.02 Secondary Pumps
10.2.03 Primary CHW Pumps
10.2.04 Cooling Tower (Show separate WBS for each module in line with Chillers)
10.2.05 Make-up Pumps
10.2.06 Condenser Water Pumps
10.2.07 Blowdown System Works
10.2.08 Air dirt separator
10.2.09 Filtration Pumps
10.2.10 Refrigeration Recovery Unit
10.2.11 Expansion vessel Units
10.2.12 Chemical Treatment System
10.2.13 Exhaust / extract Fans
10.2.14 Generators
10.2.15 Compressed Air System

10.3 Electrical Works
10.3.1 Transformers
10.3.2 Switchgears
10.3.3 Starters
10.3.4 Earthing System
10.3.5 LV MCC Plant Works
10.3.6 NGR

10.4 Plant Automation Works (Including BMS - Plant & Building separate)
10.4.1 BMS Wiring
10.4.2 Hardware Installation
10.4.3 Software purchase
10.4.4 Development of Application
10.4.5 Integrate Software with System

10.5 Fire Protection Works
10.5.1 Fire Pump Systems
10.5.2 Fire Sprinkler System
10.5.3 generator deluge system
10.5.4 FM200 System
10.5.5 Fire Hydrant System
10.5.6 Fire Beam Detector System

10.6 Building services
10.6.1 CCTV Works
10.6.2 Normal Lighting Works
10.6.3 Emergency Lighting Works
10.6.4 Small Power Works
10.6.5 Lighting Protection Works
10.6.6 LV MCC Works
10.6.7 AHU’s / FCU’s
10.6.8 Battery Room / UPS

In Testing & Commissioning, include for all above items and add Power Connection with Main Supply (11/22kV)

The list is not complete and you may need to add components as per teh design of the DCP, but these are the key items which u need to incorporate in ur program.

In the project close-out u need to have items like System tune-up, submission of vendor manual, QA/QC Documentation, As-Built Drawings etc.

Feel free to ask if u need more details.

Regards,

Ravi
Shah. HB
User offline. Last seen 19 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 773
Hi Pacifico
I am posting the WBS concisely; you can break or merge for further level of detail to meet your project requirement

1.General [ NTP, Mobilisation, etc ]

2.Milestones

2.1 Contractual Milestones [Readiness of chillers for operation, Readiness of MV system to reactive power , etc ]

2.2 Project Milestone [ Power ON, Water & Drainage connection, etc ]

3.Information release/Design Availability
4.Free issue Items
5.Statutory Authority NOC’s
6.Provisional Sum
7.Engineering Details [Shop drawings, materials & method statements submission & approvals]
8.Procurement Management [ Order, mgf & Shipment ]
9.Civil Construction –Substructure, superstructure & External works
10. MEP Installations
11. Testing & Commissioning
12. Project Closeout
Pacifico Pallasigui
User offline. Last seen 11 years 47 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 62
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Sirs,

Can anybody give the WBS of A District Cooling Plant we will be constructing the Riyadh complex and the cooling plant is included.

Thanks

Jun
Shah. HB
User offline. Last seen 19 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 773
Hi to all seniors

I am currently working in district cooling plant project as junior scheduler, and project is almost 70% over.

If i found any answer to your question i will post here
Dieter Wambach
User offline. Last seen 7 years 1 week ago. Offline
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 1350
Hi Mike

So we both agree that we must have a profound understanding of the process. "Build" for my understanding is what my father and I did with my parents house.

Regards

Dieter
Mike Testro
User offline. Last seen 6 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 4418
Hi Dieter.

I have - in my early career in building - laid bricks and pitched roofs but that is only a part of being a builder.

What is needed is a full understanding of the construction process and how the many elements interface and affect each other.

When you have that level of experience you can call yourself a builder and only then can you plan a project.

If you do not have that level of experience you can only schedule a programme to someone elses plan.

Added to this is my other maxim:

"Keep learning and if you don’t know ask someone who does."

I do react aversly to PP members who are completely out of their depth begging for sample programmes - I now realise that Ravi was not doing this but in his #1 thread it seemed like he was.

Best regards

Mike Testro
Dieter Wambach
User offline. Last seen 7 years 1 week ago. Offline
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 1350
Dear Mike

"If you can’t build it you can’t plan it." In my humble opinion you devalue the profession "Planner". You must have a understanding of all parts of the project you’ll have to plan but there is no need to be a brick-layer and an electrician and a plumber and a carpenter and a welder and a process engineer and an advocat (legal issues of a project!) specialised in that country you’ll have to run that project, and ...
In contrary: It’s impossible to know each detail of a project. So, one essential capacity of a planner is: Communication skills - e.g. ask, if you don’t know a detail.
This is one advantage of PP.

"If you can’t build it you can’t plan it." in my opinion would prevent from learning. Each project is a challenge to learn something new, to expand knowledge. If a planner would tell me, "I can’t plan this project because there are details I never built", this would be a reason to separate from her/him. IMHO

Ravi
sorry for misusing your thread.

Regards

Dieter

A D
User offline. Last seen 3 years 24 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 1027
Mike,

First of all let me tell you that it’s because of people like you and Dieter with such a huge experience make this (Planning) planet lively. Ur experience is more than our age. But, things go nasty sometimes, and u require that (lethal) cocktail.

Anyway, as said in my post # 01, I have the manufacturer’s list and i do have contact with some of the vendors but not all.So, I still require some experts advise so that i dont miss anything.

What I call that lethal sounding cocktail -----?? (We can call that as .............. "Charlie Orbe’s" cocktail)

Cheers,

Ravi
Mike Testro
User offline. Last seen 6 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 4418
Hi Deiter

Thanks for calming this thread down.

Hi Ravi

I was not responding to your thread as a Moderator but as a PP member who is trying to spread a simple message.

If you can’t build it you can’t plan it.
You can schedule someone elses plan - so ask someone who does know how to build it.

It is best to ask someone in your own company who will then have to stand by the advice given to you.

Now that you have clarified your request and narrowed it down to risk and pinch points maybe there is someone in PP who can help you.

As in most industrial plants it will probably come down to the time required for testing and commissioning the various elements and then the whole plant.

Best regards

Mike Testro.

PS I worked in Baghdad when Saddham was in charge and it was one of the best postings ever.

PPS - What do you call that lethal sounding cocktail?
Dieter Wambach
User offline. Last seen 7 years 1 week ago. Offline
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 1350
Ravi

I understood your first question in a similar way as Mike, I’m afraid. Thank you for clarification.

But I’m sorry, I never planned this kind of plant.

Regards

Dieter
A D
User offline. Last seen 3 years 24 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 1027
Dieter,

My question was very simple. As far as civil and MEP works goes or commissioning of items like pumps & motors, i know to a certain extent. But if somebody has already carried out District Cooling Plants, they must be knowing some tricks of the trade for better planning and scheduling and making sure RISK remains less and there are no surprises.

That was my question and nothing beyond that.

As far as sharing of plans is concerned, i fully agree with u and we have to follow certain ethical codes as a professional and not share plans at least. Thats why i never asked for any plans but just sharing of any special info (Tricks of the Trade) which may help for successful completion of the project.

TEA? I think its time for some vodka, mixed with some coconut rum, cream of almond, sweet vermouth with a dash of limejuice.

:-)
Dieter Wambach
User offline. Last seen 7 years 1 week ago. Offline
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 1350
Ravi

Please calm down! In my opinion of course you can put questions as in post #1. But please be aware that we are paid by employers to create plans for THEM. They own the plans. I’m sure that you won’t publish one of your plans in this forum or to another planner - if not a colleague. I won’t do it as well. Maybe you’ll ask a bit more specific - e.g. for special problems (lead-times, suppliers), technical issues ....

For specific questions, no doubt, you’ll receive appropriate answers.

Mike, in Germany British gentlemen are famous for their sense of humour and their politeness.

Is there a chance for a virtual tea? Indian or British?

Best regards from Germany

Dieter

A D
User offline. Last seen 3 years 24 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 1027
U r going in a totally wrong direction.

This forum is for sharing our experience and NOT the way u think by just sharing some key information, my work will be over.

Now, if u ask me anything about pre-engineered buildings, fabrication works, infra works including pipeline works, definitely i can share some good information, which i have done from last couple of years on this forum.

What make u think that just by sharing some lesson learned from previous project, my work will be over. Is this how people work in european countries?? I Dont think so.

If u dont know anything about District Cooling Plant, then at least let others guy share their experince.

If u keep on posting things like this, and act more of a Saddam Hussain / Hitler on this forum, I will think twice to visit this site.

Guys like Arnold Puy and Dieter have shared a lot of info on this forum and they might have never ever thought of these things in their mind.

There are lot of speacilized projects on which its very difficult to get info online and especially if ur co. has entered into a new venture. I thought this forum is RUN BY PLANNERS FOR PLANNERS.
Mike Testro
User offline. Last seen 6 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 4418
Hi Raviraj

You don’t want much do you - just for some PP members to do your job for you.

Take your time and do it yourself.

Best regards

Mike Testro