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(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?

(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.

P3 Vs P3ec

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Wed, 2004-08-11 07:00
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Yes you got it - WE DO NOT NEED THE TRUE FUNCTION OF ENTERPRISE. THIS IS THE POINT, IF YOU DO NOT NEED IT IT DONT COMPLICATE THINGS, IF ON THE OTHER HAND YOU NEED IT, GET IT.

- we dont use nor need time cards for scheduling functions, some of our Contractors keep track of employees at the job level using hand recognition systems integrated into their accounting and job costing, not into their scheduling sotware. I guess those with Timberline Accounting could integrate both, but do not.
- our contractor’s dont use named resources at the planning level they use trades, they let front end supervisors distribute their crew.
- they all have Structured EPS / OBS / RBS
yes even RBS, they have crews.
- we use Expedition 9.0 on the Web for our needs, a great product not substituted by a CPM tool. Although not a true Document Control System it is our best option, above available true document control systems.
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Replies

Fri, 2006-10-20 09:27
#1
Arthur Godbeer
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My good friend Steve has regrettably left Primavera Australia and is now in a senior but non-PM related position. So I doubt that he is still reading these posts. But I have no doubt that his overall knowledge about Primavera remains unequalled by most or all of the rest of us here.
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Thu, 2006-10-19 21:17
#2
Alex Wong
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of course Steve is on the spot.
being one of the director of Primavera Australia, he explain it well..

^^

Alex
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Thu, 2006-01-05 04:31
#3
Jorge Taguinod
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Steve Keys has provided the complete explanation on what it entails to have an evaluation installed. I stand corrected on any misconception my short message may have conveyed.

Best regards,

Jorge
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Wed, 2006-01-04 22:12
#4
Steve Keys
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As a PAR employee (and former Primavera employee) I must contradict the last post. PARs are NOT allowed to installed their NFR (not for resale) copies of Primavera software on behalf of clients or prospects.

However, at their discretion, PARs may order an evaluation copy of Primavera software with a standard configuration including all modules and with a time bombed license (typically 30 days). You will find that a good PAR will likely insist on the client / prospect undertaking some formal training and / or professional services assistance during the evaluation process.

This is to ensure the proper and effective transfer of knowledge from both an application and technology perspective, and to make sure there is a proper commitment on both sides to a fair and appropriate evaluation process, with associated success criteria.

Demo CDs, on the other hand, do not exist (and rightly so, I might add).

Mario is right to point out the fact that users can upgrade to Primavera v5 from P3 and undertake an evaluation period to determine the best fit for purpose, and you can find out more at http://www.primavera.com/customer/products/p3upgrade_faq.asp.

However even during this process I would strongly recommend that you engage your local PAR for assistance during implementation and at the very least undertake some form of re-orientation training on the new application.

Those familiar with P3 will appreciate some help navigating the different User Interface, and in general you will be able learn more about some of the new features available in v5 to make a more informed choice.
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Tue, 2006-01-03 02:59
#5
Jorge Taguinod
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Actually, PARS (at their discretion) can install Primavera Enterprise for interested clients. This license expires every end of March.

So if you’re a good sales lead, they may decide to install a fully working Primavera license.

Happy convincing...
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Fri, 2005-12-23 00:49
#6
Gün Göksu
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Thank you very much to all who have replied to my last post.

I’ll talk with our PAR.

:)
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Thu, 2005-12-22 08:56
#7
Marcio Sampaio
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Until this day, Primavera is not offering demo version of 5.0.
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Thu, 2005-12-22 08:12
#8
Naveed Tariq, PE,...
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Dear GUN

You have to check with your PAR. Some times if they feels you are committed to purchase software, they may offer you with a demo software.

Otherwsie you can ask them for a hands on working demo.

Cheers!
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Thu, 2005-12-22 06:27
#9
Mario Sanvitale
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There are no demo versions of P5. Assuming your P3 to be under maintenance, my understanding is that Primaveta will provide an upgrade to P5 for no cost, which can be tested alongside P3 for a limited time, prior to migration, and if migration is not possible for technical or other reasons you can return the P5. There are added features to P5 which are not in P3, so it will be worth discussing with your PAR whether some assistance will be beneficial - my view is that this is a good investment since it’s a really quick way to understand the differences and to take advantage of the added value of P5 as quickly as possible.
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Thu, 2005-12-22 02:45
#10
Gün Göksu
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Is a demo (or time limited) version of the P3ec v5.0 available? I need to check with my own eyes how good that import/export issue has been resolved before I suggest an upgrade here.

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Mon, 2005-12-19 16:39
#11
Steve Keys
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Yes
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Mon, 2005-12-19 05:04
#12
Gün Göksu
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Question: is this P3 v5 you are talking about in fact P3ec v5.0 ?

Best wishes. :)
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Mon, 2005-12-19 03:56
#13
Gün Göksu
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I was going to start a thread for the following simple question.

=>importing in P3ec.

but thanks to you I now know there is better.

I have to get it!

I have to use it. I have to learn its insides.

thats the best news I have had P3 related for ages.

its been veeerrryyyyy long in comming.

do they offer student discounts? anyone?

Thank you for the news.
:))
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Thu, 2005-11-24 14:42
#14
Philip Jonker
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Hi Jorge,

I have a PDF file about migrating from P3 v3.x to version which may be of interest to you. It addresses the issues you are talking about. The initial structuring of a project is critical to the project in the long term, and if it is not done properly in the first place, the planning will become a horrendous nightmare in time. This is obviously directly proportianate with the size of the project. The project I am involved with at present has about sixty to 80 sub-projects, and each one will require dedicated planning if we are to achieve success. This does not even take into account the problem of resourcing all these sites, and how to find the manpower to effect it.

Primavera V5 has solved a lot of these problems, both in breakdown structures, as well as ease of use such as coding, etc.

However, we are still researching "line of Balance" or chainage vs time programs to integrate with V5, if you have any ideas it would be appreciated.

Regards

Philip
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Wed, 2005-11-23 22:12
#15
Jorge Taguinod
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Congratulations, Philip! :)

I’ve read about the new features in P5, and a large volume of the new features manual was dedicated to Past Period Actuals (PPA). It’s so organized that it’s quite scary to use. I think that to properly implement managing PPA in P5, one has to first develop a plan/procedure/guideline. Implementing the use of PPA without a formal document addressing your project’s/organization’s need poses a lot of risks against having to redo it. I believe you can’t just use this on the fly.

Best regards,

Jorge
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Wed, 2005-11-23 14:01
#16
Philip Jonker
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Hi Steve,

Sorry about your problem, and I symphathise, however it is not for this forum
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Wed, 2005-11-23 13:59
#17
Philip Jonker
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Hi Mario, the Imp0/Exp facilities are greatly improved, you are quite right, there is still some problens with importing and exporting things like calendars and the like. These issurs are easily resolved by the creation of dummy projects where you make the calendars global, and then sending these. After importing the projects, just delete them, and the calendars abd code structures remain

Regards
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Wed, 2005-11-23 13:51
#18
Philip Jonker
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Hi Brennan,

Thanks, and V5 has these options, you will be amazed that you do not have to be a d_base expert, and it creates templates for use in excel, for D_base ignoramuses, with instructions, about what to do.

Regards
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Wed, 2005-11-23 13:46
#19
Philip Jonker
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Hi Vlad, thanks my friend
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Wed, 2005-11-23 06:59
#20
Steve Keys
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I would suggest that until such time as "Forum Guests" (of one type or another) declare themselves (and quite possibly their interests) we are faced with a rum debate of little merit or equality.
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Wed, 2005-11-23 06:02
#21
Mario Sanvitale
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Brennan - in reply, yes and yes. P3e as was has always had an imp/exp function, much improved in V5, and prior period actuals are in V5.

And congratulations from me as well, Philip.
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Tue, 2005-11-22 21:55
#22
Brennan Westworth
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interesting... I havent had a chance to evaluate V5

do they have:
- period performance?
- import / export (or some similar way of easily getting the data in and out without being a database guru.


by the way, congrats Jonkers
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Tue, 2005-11-22 15:18
#23
Vladimir Liberzon
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Congratulations, Philip!
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Tue, 2005-11-22 14:05
#24
Philip Jonker
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Hi Guys,
Leaving P3 is a sad thing, but you can now skip a step and move to V5. it is a bit like going from the ice age to global warming. They have sorted out the bugs in P3ec, and in version 5 have actually brought about a workable solution that is better. So [deleted by Moderator] go for some new technology. I became a grandfather today, thanks to Erik Jonker a member, and am still learning. So just get on with it and learn more.


Regards

Philip
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Wed, 2005-10-26 03:28
#25
Jorge Taguinod
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One of the problems with trying to improve P3 3.1 (aside from it being 16-bit) is the database it uses -- Btrieve. P5 can now use either Oracle, Interbase or MSDE.

The new database can handle longer fields (like activity names, activity IDs, more custom data items...). I remember being frustrated not being able to transfer complete activity descriptions as shown in in the contract into P3. PE can now do this.

Best regards,

Jorge
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Wed, 2005-10-26 03:21
#26
Jorge Taguinod
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My apologies for not replying for a looong time.

I think that since everyone is at ease -- in love? :) -- with P3 3.1, it would be much cheaper and practical to maintain 1 computer dedicated for P3 3.1. That way you can upgrade all the other software that you have (Excel, etc.) while maintaining P3 as your preferred PM tool.

Needless to say (but i’m saying it anyway), you’ll be maintaining Win 98/XP/etc. that can run P3. That’s it. You can wire the P3 computer with the new one running the new OS so that you can share files (like when you want to import/export) to and from Excel. Or better, you may want to also maintain old versions of Excel (+ Word, + whatever software you want to run on the old PC), so you won’t have to switch PCs everytime you want to run Excel and P3.

What do you think?

Best regards,

Jorge
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Thu, 2004-08-19 11:39
#27
Brennan Westworth
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(as a side point would it be too much to ask all these "guests" to register and log in before posing... i loose track of who i am talking to :))
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Thu, 2004-08-19 09:17
#28
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Thank you. I just confirmed he is a coworker. Your help will be appreciated.
Not only highliting the pros of P3e/P3 is good as well as the cons. but also includding pros of other softwares might proove usefull as long as we keep focused on the main topic.
There is an interesting option in a Russian Software - "Spider", they include Line Diagrams into their software.
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Thu, 2004-08-19 09:16
#29
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Thu, 2004-08-19 06:49
#30
Brennan Westworth
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Im sorry guest, I do not have access to P3e at the moment.

Just a thought for you tho... I assume you are logging onto P3e as the same user each time. As i understand that each user account has their own baseline information.

BTW Progress in baselines causes problems in P3 too

[EDIT] We have gotten off topic... Ill take a look at your thread in the P3e section
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Thu, 2004-08-19 06:48
#31
Steven Oliver
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Perhaps I am missing something, but why are you updating a baseline ?
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Thu, 2004-08-19 06:40
#32
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Mr Brennan Westworth:

In the P3e Category there is a thread under the title of "wrong baseline". We have noticed this before. To isolate the problem we created a 3 activities schedule, made it a baselinte and then updated the baseline to; one activity completed, a second activity say at 50% and a third activity not started yet. We observed the same weird result.
We even blindly tried to move the relative position of the bars, a procedure that works for other traps, but it did not worked.
Would you please run the 3 activities job and provide us with a solution? We need a solution as we are using both products P3 and P3e. We submit our monthly report to the Government Agency with a P3e Summary Schedule. We are about to ask the Network Manager to re-install the prior version of P3e on the Network.
We have previously found answers to our problems in this forum, it is usually much faster and easier than calling Primavera.
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Wed, 2004-08-18 23:47
#33
Brennan Westworth
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i was only using acrobat as an example of the problems P3 has interfacing with modern software.

I totally agree that we should never stop looking at and assessing alternatives to Primavera (gota keep em on their toes) but we should also take a proactive roll in letting primavera know how they can improve their product. I have found them to be open to suggestions.

P3e has come a long way since its first beta release, I think that within a couple of years we will end up with a product that far surpasses P3.
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Wed, 2004-08-18 21:23
#34
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I will follow your suggestion, first will try service pack 2 for windows xp pro. when available then in a near future will upgrade to acrobat 6.0 either standard or pro.
Thank you
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Wed, 2004-08-18 15:56
#35
B Cass
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Sorry to interrupt, but what trouble are you having with Acrobat? Service Pack 2 addressed the default printer issue and as long as your print directory is 8 characters or less and no more than 5 directories deep it should work like a normal printer. We recently upgraded to Acrobat 6.0 Pro and now the 8 character print directory is no longer an issue either (at least not on Win XP).
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Wed, 2004-08-18 11:06
#36
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Indeed interfacing with Acrobat is an issue, we have a way around.
Set Distiller as your default printer, then "print to Distiller" using the printer icon on the toolbar, it works.
Do not use File-Print Menu nor the Print Preview Icon on the toolbar, it won’t work.
It solves the issue but it is still a nuisance.
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Wed, 2004-08-18 06:45
#37
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Mr Breenan, honestly you are right in every regard:

-We had played with p3e and recommend everyone else to do it before making critical decisions.
-We have realized it is not an upgrade to P3 and got dissapointed, similar names P3 vs. P3e is misleading. P3e is another product.
-We are looking for a sustitute for P3, we know of the issues with Acrobat. This issue is very important to us.
-We know P3 is, or is to become, "outdated" by the mere fact it is not a 32 bit application.
That’s why we are looking for a substitute, science P3e do not make the grade, based on our needs, we must look elsewere.
Suretrak although being a 32 bit application ,falls short of our expectations as a substitute to P3, good enough to half of our Contractors. The combination of P3 and Suretrack gave us flexibility the same way Primavera Contractor will do to P3e. We must look for a substitute that provides similar flexibility.
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Wed, 2004-08-18 01:50
#38
Brennan Westworth
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Yes I did read the posts "guest". The general feeling i got was people had played with P3e for a while, realised that it wasn’t P3 and got uncomfortable.

I personally think that although P3 is a good "tool" (and remember that when comes down to it P3 is to a planneer that which a calculator is to an engineer) it is quite outdated. one only has to try interfacing it with modern software (like adobe acrobat) to uncover the instability of its anchient engine.

The P3 community is right to push primavera to improve its product, but please take a proactive approach.
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Wed, 2004-08-18 01:49
#39
Alex Wong
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Forum Guest (1 or 2 or 3 ??)

Anyway it is very hard to know who we talk to and if there is any point to cont. the discussion. Since you initial comments. Can’t track back who or wehen... it seem that you still cannot substainate exactly why you cannot use P3e. Cost (They are about the same in a new user point of view), Learning Curve (Any new software you have to learn), Training (As above), Easy of use(That becomes very subjective and personal), or just too different from P3??

I dont think we can discuss in a healthy way until you present yourself. Again it is your personal perference.

Alex
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Wed, 2004-08-18 01:40
#40
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Brennan,

Have you read the previous posts? I don’t think you did, I suggest you read from the very start.
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Wed, 2004-08-18 01:29
#41
Brennan Westworth
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QUOTE: Forum Guest
"I’m just making a point that if something is not broken, don’t fix it"

Then keep windows XP and P3 for the rest of your planning career.

I on the other hand would like to support companies (like primavera) that are developing their planning software. The opinion that "P3 is the pinacle of project planning software, we will never need more than that" is ridiculous.

I have used P3 and P3e professionally and can say without hesitation that P3e has some great features that make my life easier and allow me to work more efficiently. I’m not saying that it is a perfect product, but the number of new versions since its initial release shows that primavera is committed to constantly improving their product.

So upgrade or dont... the choice is yours
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Tue, 2004-08-17 22:46
#42
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It goes further than personal taste. It should be a decision based on your real needs. Science this is an issue related to P3 and P3e all opinions are welcome. I just hope Primavera is litsening as well as those evaluating the alternatives.
You must do appropiate research to make sure the product is what you need. Do some trial runs using real data and real procedures for updating, tranfering files, comparing files, cost load and resource load the schedules, work with baselines and finally run all required reports.
Our contractors submit every month an updated schedule in electronic form, we must compare the updated version with the prior version to make sure it is valid, to make sure the contractor is not using float supression techniques to favor their claims.
These schedules are used by our Contractors to sustain their delay claims and time extension request. The owner requires to justify time extension using the CPM in order to approve Change Orders for time extension or Extended Overhead. Usually time extensions are due to unforseen conditions, not necesarelly the Contractor’s fault. To us it is important, extremelly important, what software will be required in our contracts.
The truth is Contractors are sometimes reluctant to the imposition of the software, their opinion must be taken into account. Sometimes they compain that they use other software, that the imposed software is expensive, that the sofware is difficult to learn, that the software requires them to use an outside consultant witout the required engineering background shifting control from their project manager to an outsider... and the list goes on.
After two years of using P3 and P3e we still require them to submit thir schedules in P3 format using either P3 or Suretrak.
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Tue, 2004-08-17 21:57
#43
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Hi Alex and forum guest,

The other forum guest may have a different opinion with me in regards to, he wants to replace P3 by an alternative software but not P3e. With me, i’ll stick with P3 but upgrading must continue, i don’t want to migrate to another platform such as P3e. The reason is simple, i’m comfortable with P3. It is effective and i find it very useful. Yes it has limitations, that’s why I want it upgraded only to cope up with these limitations.

What Primavera did was it brought down the whole house and build a new one. But it is still the same house, with added features.

But I guess this is all water under the bridge, I’m just expressing my opinion on the subject.
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Tue, 2004-08-17 20:42
#44
Alex Wong
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Forum Guest

Good that you xpress your point of view. I guess some people want a 4x4 some people want to use bus. Company choice. If a company never have a vehicle before. It is good to have a bus. However, if everyone in the company is already using a car. It is very hard to ask them to change to a bus. Please do understand that it is not to do with the bus of car itself it is just a personal preference. And your personal preference is very clear. However, I guess there is room for others to view the different size of the picture. Everything have a pro and con, individual have to evulate how it apply to them. Thats why lot of IT company love P3e. Becasuse they never have one and cost traing, & acceptance is not an issue.


:}
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Tue, 2004-08-17 06:58
#45
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If we needed enterprise stuff we would have converted long ago, as enterprise scheduling has been available long ago.

I dislike P3e because is not friendly to stand alone projects, is not like P3, when you import files you get everything your counterpart is looking at. If you represent the owner, you want this.

Again the basics arithmetic. On average 400 activities per 12 million dollars job, P3 on 100,000 activities yields a Project Group of 250 projects, all sharing resources. That is "a mere 3 Billion in US Dollars", again fortunatelly we can spread our jobs in separate Project Groups, this way we could handdle hundreds of Billions. Got it, is not statistics, is a matter of need, is a matter of software cost, is a matter of the learning curve applied to the whole enterprise, is a matter of simplicity.

P3 has more than the vast majority need. CPM is not the only tool, Job Costing is another important tool usually integrated into accounting, who wants to dupplicate this effort? Contractor’s need the whole story, costs related to units in a meningfull way. Earned Value only provides 50%, yes it is a simplification, enough for one time shots or for other businesess where management is not concerned with unit costs but other approach to Budgetting. Contractor’s prefer to keep scheduling simple. The point is, not everybody needs all the CPM tools available nor all the tools in a CPM are enough.

Both programs P3 and P3e do the basics and more, is not an issue of statistics. Is on the whole idea the issue, they are two different approaches to scheduling.

Although a School Bus (P3e)can handdle more passengers I still prefer my utility vehicle (P3), with the 4x4 available when it rains at the jobsite.

We as government consultants must be responsive to both side needs, these are General Construction Contractors in one side and the Government Agency at the other side.

It is a fact we must look for a replacement for P3, definitivelly it is not P3e.
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Tue, 2004-08-17 05:40
#46
Alex Wong
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I still dont understand what P3e that makes you so uncomfortable. If you read the forum there is 50 / 50 in the like and dislike zone. You will then ask why?? I guess it is all related to change management. At least that is what I think. Can you list out the stuff that you cannot do in P3e so that we can share your view. - BTW as I mentioned in last few message there is a current category in Planning Planet discuss this topic in more details

Cheers

Alex
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Mon, 2004-08-16 11:05
#47
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It wont fill the void to our needs. I have no doubt it will still be annoying judging from a screen available at the primavera Site and comparing to a P3e screen. Though we will give it a chance and eventually run it side by side with P3 and P3e.

No doubt it will fill the void for those in need of a scalable solution under P3e. A real need for some, or shall I say a "few". No doubt the "few" is a good market.

We are not in this market.
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Mon, 2004-08-16 10:28
#48
Ronald Winter
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What a coincidence that you asked for it. Primavera will be introducing P3e ‘Lite’ sometime in the near future. All of the CPM but half of the price.
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Mon, 2004-08-16 06:53
#49
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Don’t count on everybody being generous, even generosity has its limit.
Do you remember Lotus 123
Do you remember Wordstar.
All gone (almost gone).
Eventually someone will get it and will fill the void already left.

... pts... Microsoft wake up, others wake up... take the chance don’t let it pass

WE ARE IN NEED OF A SUBSTITUTE FOR P3, P3e IS NOT WHAT WE NEED.
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Mon, 2004-08-16 04:45
#50
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You see alex, as you said anything is possible in programming its just a matter of cost benefit. If Primavera has decided not to upgrade to P3 I don’t mind. I’m just making a point that if something is not broken, don’t fix it. Perhaps after ten years, Primavera would change again its format, telling us the same reason, its just a matter of cost benefit for programming. Aren’t we being too generous to a vendor if we just follow what they offered us?

But to tell you frankly, I’m not convinced with your answers, I tend to believe more the reason by other forum guest.
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Mon, 2004-08-16 03:35
#51
Alex Wong
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Hi Forum Guest

"In real software term, it is very difficult to change the 16 bit technology to a 32 or 64 bit technology and that’s why Primavera do not want to re-programme the software application(P3)" - Are you expert on this? Yes P3 data base is currently on a string method and is only allow to have 64 characters. Thats why you cannot have too long Activity ID and Description. Anything is possible in programming, just whether the cost benefit can support that. And I think Primavera is already made the decision.

"Changing platform is not the issue, just there is no room to growth in P3 and that is why Primavera have to develop a alternated product P3e, team play or P3e/c (they are same)to takeover the existing 10 years old product" - Are you sure about this expecially the no room for growth part?

See above, comments, anything is possible, ie try to introduce a structured code system in P3. Almost impossible with the way the database is currently setting. Guess why Primavera already annonce they are not going to enhance P3. Do you think that they will run the decision without a cost benefit analysis.

Cheer up and start to learn P3e...

Alex
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Mon, 2004-08-16 02:00
#52
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IMHO, the upgrading of software has to do with commercial issues (i.e. for the vendor to keep raking on profits). Why do you think that car manufacturers have to introduce new models every year when we know that the car we bought could last more than a year?
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Mon, 2004-08-16 01:37
#53
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Hi Alex,

You said that

"In real software term, it is very difficult to change the 16 bit technology to a 32 or 64 bit technology and that’s why Primavera do not want to re-programme the software application(P3)" - Are you expert on this?

"Changing platform is not the issue, just there is no room to growth in P3 and that is why Primavera have to develop a alternated product P3e, team play or P3e/c (they are same)to takeover the existing 10 years old product" - Are you sure about this expecially the no room for growth part?

Please elaborate.


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Mon, 2004-08-16 00:58
#54
Vladimir Liberzon
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To Forum Guest:

Check Spider Project Professional. This software is most popular among serious project planners in Russia and other former CIS countries where it successfully competes with Primavera and other American project management software.
Using this software:
- you can create unlimited number of Custom Calculated Fields,
- you can create reports for any time periods in the past and in the future,
- you can create any structures (and use any number of WBS in one project) but you can also skip this functionality,
- you can create any number of cost components and simulate not only spendings but also incomes and receive cash flow reports estimating future profits and other parameters necessary for project estimating.
And you can export project schedules (and import too) to P3e or MS Project if somebody else will ask you for this.

Download its Demo from http://www.spiderproject.ru/spider_e.shtml. I would be grateful if you will try it and inform me about your oppinion. There are other features worth mentioning like using project management databases, risk simulation, resource constrained schedule optimization and many others. You can read about them in the Publication section of www.spiderproject.ru

If you will have any questions write to me. My E-mail: spider@mail.cnt.ru

Best Regards,
Vladimir

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Mon, 2004-08-16 00:43
#55
Alex Wong
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To reply your comments:

I think instead of changing the platform from P3 to P3e, its better just to upgrade P3 considering whatever the future OS by Microsoft will be launching.

The decision not upgrading or further improve the system is is made by Primavera. You need to ask them to improve it. In real software term, it is very difficult to change the 16 bit technology to a 32 or 64 bit technology and that’s why Primavera do not want to re-programme the software application(P3)

It is also noteworthy to improve the cost feature of P3.
I hope one day, I won’t need to buy an estimating software to interface with a scheduling software. Primavera could explore on this side because I believe, they have somewhat mastered already the planning/scheduling part.

Primavera did added lots of function in the TOP DOWN and bottom up estimating function in P3e(Version 4).


My point here is, planning/scheduling is already developed in P3, Primavera should look on other important elements of project management not changing platforms.

Changing platform is not the issue, just there is no room to growth in P3 and that is why Primavera have to develop a alternated product P3e, team play or P3e/c (they are same)to takeover the existing 10 years old product. (Like asking Microsoft not to release a new version of Windows) Just not possible

In the first place, why the need to change platform? Just improve and upgrade it considering user requirements not considering first Microsoft requirements. Again, I believe there are good programmers there who can do this job so I don’t see any reason why this can’t be done.

I guess you dont understand the reason... software is not construction, you can use the same method of construction for 100 years, just as good. But software technology changes everydays and moment and what is good today is no longer good enough for tomorrow. If we always stay at what we are, we never improve.

I just try to explain to the planners out there that we have to accept new technology. Don’t be scare of changes, we should be the best project people to implement changes. Take some time and learn the product. Again P3 or P3e is only a tool, we are the intelligent behind the schedule. Our knowledge is valueable to the project not the software. You have to make use of the software to perform what we ask for. Don’t limited our knowledge by the software.

All the best!
:-}
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Mon, 2004-08-16 00:08
#56
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In addition to my reply/query to Jorge:

I think instead of changing the platform from P3 to P3e, its better just to upgrade P3 considering whatever the future OS by Microsoft will be launching. It is also noteworthy to improve the cost feature of P3. I hope one day, I won’t need to buy an estimating software to interface with a scheduling software. Primavera could explore on this side because I believe, they have somewhat mastered already the planning/scheduling part.

My point here is, planning/scheduling is already developed in P3, Primavera should look on other important elements of project management not changing platforms.

In the first place, why the need to change platform? Just improve and upgrade it considering user requirements not considering first Microsoft requirements. Again, I believe there are good programmers there who can do this job so I don’t see any reason why this can’t be done.
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Sun, 2004-08-15 16:08
#57
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I would appreciate:
1- The ability to define Custom Calculated Fields.
2- The ability to view and edit past period performance database in a worksheet view.
3- EVERY DAY USE FUNCTIONALITY - No more esoterics, like EPS, OBS to me it is BS in relation to Scheduling, don’t need it, it is a waste of effort, a waste of time. No one I know uses "time cost-trade off", functions avilable 30 years ago for the determination of optimum schedule duration based on variable activity cost with duration, good for a collegue thesis but not for everyday use. From the very beginning those who developed P3 knew what was important, they did not included those esoterics. Nothing new is really needed, scheduling is no rocket science, but there is a lot to be improved in functionallity and ease of use.
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Sun, 2004-08-15 19:40
#58
Alex Wong
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Can you please let us know what version you are currently using??

if you are using 4.0 q1 and q2 is already resolved
Secondly
q3 - it is important for organisation to have some degree of control on each of the project its running otherwise why go Entreprise (P3e), P3 is good enough. However, I am not sure you done appropriate training to the product (P3e)yet. Again I see a lot of people hiding in the Forum Guest area and not present themself & critise the software.

Remember P3e is only a tool if the driver is not good, it would make any good to the project.

Hope all forum guest can register and let us (planning planet’s planners) know exactly what you cannot do in P3e but P3 can

(Except period Performance) I know Primavera have some issue in providing that function. :}

Regards

Alex
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Sun, 2004-08-15 16:08
#59
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I would appreciate an alternative to P3 other than P3e.
Willing to consider suggestions.
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Sun, 2004-08-15 13:38
#60
Vladimir Liberzon
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What do you expect from the alternate to P3/Suretrak?
What features that are absent in P3/P3e you will appreciate? What features of P3 your new software must support? At what markets you will do your search?
Thank you in advance for your answers.
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Sun, 2004-08-15 08:21
#61
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We do not necesarely want to be Primavera users. We dont make a living doing schedules, we make a living as builders. Our need is for a CPM tool afordable, easy to use by our contractors and subcontractors. A scalable solution like P3 and Suretrack, P3e and Primavera Contractor won’t fit us.
We do not need an esoteric tool with unnecessary complications like Enterprise Organization Structure, like Named Resources, ... a 100% of our contractors dont have a need for these. Shared resources is a rare comodity in our business, our projects are a 100% stand alone.
I was to recommend to compare products side by side, to prepare real life schedules in both products and decide by yourself. A couple of schedules and a running a simulation of the whole process should tell you.
Unfortunatelly all investment in Primavera P3 software and training will be lost. We should start soon to look for a replacement. But I dont like what I hear, "MS Projet as an alternative", it is not, better look for an alternative elsewere.
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Thu, 2004-08-12 22:18
#62
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Hi Jorge,

Is there a way the present 16 bit for P3 be upgraded so as to comply with the requirements of the new OS of Microsoft instead of shifting again to a new environment such as P3e?

I don’t see any reason, like the previous forum guest, why I should change from P3 to P3e if that is the only reason. I am quite happy with P3 and I find it effective in managing my projects. I believe, with very good programmers from Primavera, they can do this as well.

Just like the other forum guest, simplicity is the key. Not everybody likes to work with complex functionalities.
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Thu, 2004-08-12 15:23
#63
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We have P3 and P3e running on our network side by side. I work both but prefer P3 over P3e by a margin of 1000 to 0. I just hope in a few years Primavera will solve some issues with P3e specially those regarding reports, ease of use when jobs and resources are not shared, and that these solutions are incorporated into the Primavera Contractor Software soon (I hope) to be released. If not we will look for other available options to satisfy our need.

The many definitions for start and finish dates available under P3e creates unnecessary confussion, maybe Primavera was looking for compatibility with MS Project.

The theory of all CPM scheduling software is essentially the same among different software. Do not loose perspective, it is what we, PROJECT MANAGERS, need as a tool, the information it provides, how it is presented (better be simple so the team includding subcontractors without a Phd can understand it, I mean Roofers, Masonry Contractor’s, Painting Contractor’s)and finally but not least important the ease of use so the tool can be used at the management level that is responsible of the job (it do not takes an MIT Sloan School of Management degree to figure out that the responsible manager should have control of what he is responsible for).

I have seen construction schedules anybody looks at, being prepared by others who dont understand the job, uncapable to differentiate between a darby and a float. Prepared just to comply with contractual requirements. The best application I have seen is when the schedule is done and maintained at the jobsite by a full time scheduler under the supervision of the Project Manager. When this is not feasible then the Project Manager himself should prepare his own schedules.
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Thu, 2004-08-12 09:57
#64
Jorge Taguinod
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Yes, but until when can you be employed as P3 schedulers/planners? Once Microsoft OS stops supporting 16-bit applications, all your Guru knowledge about P3 is useless since P3 is a 16-bit software.

I advice that you start learning P3e if you want to remain a Primavera user.

Good luck.
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