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P3 vs P3ec

12 replies [Last post]
Wed, 2004-08-04 22:13
Forum Guest
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Has there been an extensive study already regarding the benefits of shifting from P3 to P3ec? Is P3ec really more effective project management tool than P3?
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Thu, 2004-08-12 09:13
#1
Jorge Taguinod
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Forum Guest,

It may not be a question of identifying the benefits of shifting to P3e. I have been using Primavera since v1 (Windows), have taught it and have practically mastered it. I have been quite frustrated with the slow development of P3e (as compared to P3 features).

But what you should be aware of is that once Microsoft comes out with an OS that doesn’t support 16-bit applications anymore, you’re dead with your P3.

If you start learning P3e by then... too late for your. You may find yourself out of a job since have mastered something that cannot be used anymore. It’s simply the law of supply and demand.

I am part of the Primavera network and I would advise you and your company to move to P3e. The cost of P3 and P3e (concurrent) are practically the same. P3e named is practically half the price of P3. So there really is no cost issue, is there?
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Wed, 2004-08-11 02:54
#2
Alex Wong
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Forum Guest

I dont think you understand. $ is not the pot.

If you are happy with hte existing system, thats fine no one ask you to move on. But the new system P3e do have several advantage compare with the 16 bit P3 system

1. Web base project view
2. Resource Management System - Named Resource
3. Time Sheets System
4. Centralized Document control system & Online Approval System
5. Structured EPS / OBS / RBS
6. Risk Management System
7. High Level Portfolio system
...

You dont need all these to run your existing project/projects, if you don’t want to move on or spending more money thats fine. There are still programmer programming in Cobal.
However, it is fact that Primavera will not further enhance P3 anymore. But P3e will.

I do agree that existing P3e still have errors and unable to perform some P3 features like save period performance. At least I have committment from the vendor that enhancment is on it’s way.

One thing that I find in the forum guest message sound like that your company attemp to deploy the P3e system with just spending the money & buying the software and rollout the system on your own.

For a enterprise system it is very important to have a standard structure and centralised code, however, it seem that your company is deploying the system on a desktop bases where the true function of "Enterprise" is not utilised. In a software terms, u are installing UNIX in a destop system. Or in construction terms... you are installing a lift in a single story house.

A lot of senior management that use P3e had benefit from its power of it’s enterprise functions. As I stated the details of it can be access in the P3e Categories in this forum

Regards

Alex
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Tue, 2004-08-10 21:54
#3
MK TSE
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I find it is quite difficult to keep track on what been posted, there are many posts from forum guests and each have his own standing point. Are they from same person or individual? Hardly to spot on target.

Anyway, I still on my point, software is tools and agree new software may improve a programmer/planner skill.
My organization is still in P3, I prefer P3e for better data architecture and easy manage. The answer from superiors is: current set-up is good enough to move onward, stable and familiar current process is better than investment on innovation. So it’s an debate. Satisfy client’s requirement is aim of providing services.

We never know which one is better until we understand the voice of need.
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Tue, 2004-08-10 20:23
#4
Forum Guest
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I do not consider P3e a better management tool than P3, at least not for our needs.

We handdle small jobs, each in the order of $12,000,000.00 US Dollars with an average of 400 activities each. These jobs are Water Treatment Facilities in the North West of Puerto Rico.

At 100,000 activities per project groups we could handle 250 such jobs in a single P3 group, no other contraints considered. This adds up a "mere" 3 Billion dollars on a single group.

Fortunatelly all jobs are stand alone. They dont share resources among each other. Contractually they are not suppose to.

Until we get over 3 Billions US$ per project group P3e does not make any sense. As a matter of fact it is very difficult to either administer unshared resources on the same data base or to administer hundreds of separate databases in the way P3e does, this is confusing and error prone. Customization of the data entry as allowed by P3e might lead to more confusion.

Also the report generator I would say is still a Beta Test, if not P3e v 4. per se.

The best way to understand the differences is by comparing side by side both products on your network. I can tel you I do not like the interface, a matter of personal taste. When Primavera releases "Contractor" I hope the interface is improved substantially.

Our company has both P3e and P3. We are Program Managers and Project Inspectors, contractors supply their schedules in P3 format. They can generate P3 format files either with P3 or with Suretrack. We use P3 to evaluate claims. Altough I prefer P3, the majority of our contractr’s prefer Suretrack.

KEEP IT SIMPLE - for hundreds of years a good management rule, guess it is still valid.....

I have no doubt Utilities might have a need for a tool as P3e, but be carefull, it is not a solution that fits all.

We will continue to require contractors to submitt their schedules in electronic form, either with or without Primavera P3.

I doubt P3e will eventually become a general use Project Management Software, not only because of cost but because of the interface and the market needs.
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Mon, 2004-08-09 05:28
#5
Forum Guest
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Hi Alex,

Just to answer some of your points:

"Just briefly, if you running a big org. with lots of PM and projects then P3e" we’re using 8 users network version so I don’t need P3e.

You compare F40 with mini. I think this is an unfair comparison. And here we go again, pure generalisations, biased comments lacking in details and specifics.

We can not gain anything if this is the kind of comments we’re going to get in this forum.

And still, the question about, Is P3e a better project management software than P3 is not answered.

Let’s face reality, I think at this point there’s no substantial advantage in using P3e. It’s not a leapfrogging event, so why change boat. Again, "if its not broken, don’t fix it".

It’s just a waste of time trying to find justification for the so called "more powerful tool" chk chk , so let’s go back to work and use whatever effective tool we have.


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Mon, 2004-08-09 03:13
#6
Alex Wong
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Try to view the P3e section. Detail discussion is already been discussed in that area

Just briefly, if you running a big org. with lots of PM and projects then P3e

If you running single project with multi sub projects then P3 is good enough.

P3e is a lot more powerful then P3 (that is fact)

But u don’t need to drive F40 to go to work, it would be nice to do so, of course there is a cost attached to it, a mini can do the same job(bring u to work). However a mini cannot give you the speed you need when you travel in a country road if you need to.

So mktse is right what is your spec. company size, usage, outcome you expected.... you have to evulate case by case. do a cost benefit analysis that may help
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Mon, 2004-08-09 00:03
#7
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I think the original question has not been answered. Is P3ec a better project management tool than P3? If the answer is yes please, if possible, kindly cite some details. If no, why do I need to shift to P3ec?I know P3 is superior than Suretrak because Suretrak has no global change etc. etc. etc.

I hope we could be very objective and specific in posting comments here not giving only general statements where nobody cares. I believe most of the people who are visiting this site don’t want to read general statements. What they want to learn are real solutions to their project management situations.

Don’t assume that if only you have a good training in P3ec, you could be a good planner.
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Fri, 2004-08-06 22:30
#8
MK TSE
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Hope this observation can support my previous post.

P3 is better than Suretrak, why Suretrak still in the market? Suretrak and P3 is co-exist, evening in same organization, same project team, even same working group. If either P3 or Suretrak is a data convertor only, the ROI is extreme low.
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Fri, 2004-08-06 22:19
#9
MK TSE
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Same as Phil, I use P3 since DOS. Besides P3, I have experiecne on Hornet, Timeline, Project, PowerProject, Artemis, PlanTac and OpenPlan (all mentioned are old version). Current employement need P3 only. All this software is tool only, we just need to know how it work, what can be done and what can’t. The management principle behind is the main spirit.

Why I put user requirement is the first place? As a planner/programmer, we provide something like consultancy services to our boss (client). He invests on equipment and ourselves. If he states P3 output can fulfill the business requirement, what can we do? If we insist upgrade, we need to prove the need on business (we are still in the business world). I agree, even eager, upgrade to P3e/c, but the response from my senior is no such requirment. I list P3e/c’s pro and con and recommend some can be resolved by upgrade, the feedback is what current practice/step/procedure/methodology/result from P3 is not to standard, is not have full picture, is not good for decision making, a lot of queries on our consultancy services.

Further, P3 is obsolete or not is not a point (I think). New licence cannot be purchased only. P3 can still ’live’ if ppl keep on using it. We have the licence already.

If one day that no computer OS can support P3 or everyone stop using P3, that’s the time to obsolete P3.
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Fri, 2004-08-06 01:03
#10
Phil Palmer
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I have been a P3 planner from the DOS days and was ver reluctant to change over to P3e. However, after a transition period and training I now cringe at the thought of doing schedules in P3.

P3 is coming to the end of its product lifecycle and usefulness on current system platforms.

From experience in training users in P3e I have not yet come across anyone who does not consider P3e a more superior tool over P3. Having said that the biggest critics of P3e are those that have not had training. I continually get told "I dont need training" or "software should be user freindly enough to pick up without training". P3e utilises some complex functionality and if you dont do training then don’t critisise it. Some of the questions that get asked in this forum is proof that not a lot of training is undertaken.

Phil
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Thu, 2004-08-05 22:05
#11
Forum Guest
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Hi MK,

If that is the case, why is there a talk that P3 may be obsolete in a few years time? I do believe in the saying "If its not broken, don’t fix it".

Are there other reasons for this?

If user requirement is the only reason, why would I spend a large amount of time again learning and exploring another PM Tool and the end result is also like using P3. I’m not against learning new technologies, but my only concern is that planners who are really good planners who do their planning effectively using a certain PM tool, are being limited to positions with P3 requirements only. He may have a little chance of landing in a good planning job if P3ec is the requirement.

My point here is, career for planners may sometimes are influenced by the softwares they know, not what they really know as planners.


What do you think guys?
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Thu, 2004-08-05 21:15
#12
MK TSE
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It’s subject to your user requirement.
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