(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?
(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.
I am trying to find out which American software vendors sells scheduling software that implements Longest Path calculations out of the box, and which do not.
I know that Primavera/ORACLE does so it is already on my list.
I understand Microsoft sells the CPM software with highest volume of sales in the world but do not know if it implements longest path calculations out of the box, please let me know.
Please limit your responses to American Software developers as I need this information with regard to procedures that are strictly based on the American experience.
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Justin,
I think this is an issue with the integration of Mail and newer versions of Outlook. I no longer have licenses of P3 as it was from a prior client I erased it, same as SureTrak, now he is using the licenses as I no longer have interest on P3 nor SureTrak. Therefore all I can try is use whatever is left on my mind.
You can bypass the Outlook mail and save the file into your hard disk and then as an attachment you can send it using newer versions of Outlook, but this you will have to figure it out, I did it many times, there is a way in SureTrak not sure about P3. This from my use of mail function as implemented by SureTrak a couple of years ago. As far as I remember SureTrak Mail function was more functional than P3 Mail.
Best regards,
Rafael
Mike,
I suppose work on all activities done by a single crew makes all resources to be key resources.
If for example you have a job that consists on painting three schools during the summer recess and you have only one crew available, these shall be scheduled to happen one at a time, but each one can be the first as there is no logic relation between them.
If you use artificial FS links between the three jobs and set school A to be the first of for some reason the start on A is delayed after contract signing and schedule approval but before any actual construction the artificial result will be the hole job is artificially delayed. But this is not true you can start with School B and then schools A and C in any order. For this example this is obvious you have to manually re assign the artificial constraints when the true constraint is not a logic constraint but a resource constraint. When you have a complex network of hundreds of activities sharing resources in different amount the manual un-statusing can become very difficult and in most occasions will yield results very far from what a good resource leveling algorithm would yield.
For this reason in our specs it is prohibited to substitute resource leveling with soft logic. It is considered bad practice and even a float reduction technique.
The following screen capture movie shows that true resource leveling will not delay the job.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq_1Qp3gYy0
It is not uncommon for it to go against the Owner. Just take a look at an extract of a common job specification. It does not allows for logic revision and in the sample provided the use of soft logic would be against the Owner, when in reality the job is not being delayed. Of course this also prevents you from fixing out-of-sequence occurrence other than using a pre defined solution such retained logic, we all know is not necessarily the correct fix, good practice mandates to analyze on a one by one basis and if necessary correct logic.
Best regard
Rafael
P.S. I am not saying the clause is from a State Government Job, I am not saying is from a Municipal Government Job, I am not saying it is from a Private Job either.
Hai ,
I want to use mail option in P3 , When i tried to use send mail option , the following error message is coming , can anyone explain , how to get rid of this error.Thanks in advance,
---------------------------Primavera Project Planner---------------------------Unable to locate mail dll: MAPI.DLL. Please make sure a mail system is installed on your machine, or call Technical Support.---------------------------OK --------------------------- RegardsJustin
Hi Rafael
There is nothing artificial about using a FS link to define the depolyment of key resources.
It is simple sensible planning that you can control and validate.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Mike,
Resource constraining got to be managed, it is not merely load and click, you can prioritize based on individual activities, based on WBS and/or a combination, what you do not do is create artificial links that appear and disappear. Keep in mind not all WBS is suitable for resource leveling prioritization, therefore if on the available defined WBS there is no good choice you can create one just for this purposes.
The true mathematical behavior of float, it is not to be fooled because it is difficult to understand or predict. I did it on purpose precisely to illustrate this mathematical behavior that must be considered when generating your listing of possible longest paths under unrestricted resource leveling. Individual activity prioritization shall not be applied as you might leave out other possible solutions that allow for an activity in a particular longest path sequence be delayed without delaying the job duration, this is a well known behavior of resource leveling and therefore in many specifications the use of "soft links" is prohibited.
If you prioritize the activities your preference will prevail unless it delays the job, the soft link solution in such case will delay the job while the resource leveling will tell you how to change the sequence to avoid delaying the job. And if the resulting order is still not what you need and you are willing to bypass the resource leveling you can create the soft link and manage the resource leveling with the understanding the soft link was at a cost as you created an artificial constraint with the use of a logic link that is not real. This last possibility can still be a possible solution but you got to manage it.
Use of float is not free as old school CPM advocates believe, if the Contractor uses float it cost him, if the Owner uses float it cost to the Contractor as it increases the risk of falling behind and liquidated damages being applied. One of the classical arguments of those who realize use of float is not for free, especially on jobs where a LD clause exists. Resource leveling allows you to manage available float, but its efficiency is reduced if you create artificial constraints disguised as soft links.
The following is one of the many possibilities, equally possible under resource leveling if all activities are assigned equal priority, it just happens that the software comes out with one of the many possible solutions, and if you do not like it, with the assignment of priorities you make the adjustments without using artificial links. If longest path calculations do not discloses all possible scenarios and it is possible different software yields different results then the additional level of complexity resource leveling adds makes the computation meaningless.
Best regards,
Rafael
Hi Rafall
If your resorce A was a sole piece of kit such as a tunnel shield or a table form I would link the tasks that utilised the resource finish start - that way the critical path is obvious and verifiable and the resource is levelled automatically.
As you know I distrust software driven resource levelling because - for one thing - unless you go to the trouble of prioritising the tasks the ultimate position in the chart is quite arbitrary - as in your example.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Miklós
ProJac is out of my reach due to the language and market availability, but get it into the English speaking market and you bet it is of my interest. Great ideas can come from anywhere and maybe Projact can contribute with a few.
Maybe circular references shall be allowed as long as they are feasible, for example you have a backfill operation that takes weeks but a number of testing can be performed at some min-max rule. The first testing must happen just after the start of the backfill and the intermediate and last required testing on or before finishing. Say the testing is to make sure the borrow material is homogeneous and that the compaction curve used was statistically correct. If instead of volume of work lag a time lag is required an even more interesting scheduling scenario would develop, perhaps conditional scheduling will create the necessary additional activities if the backfill operation is predicted to be delayed as the job progress.
I advocate for the availability of more advanced modeling software as we have a real need for them, life is not so simple, forget about only the limited functionality of traditional CPM, it is not enough for all modeling needs.
Some scheduling problems might be better modeled using queuing software as old GPSS or General Purpose Simulation System, perhaps for the what if analysis on earth movement in combination with limited road access. None shall be ruled out.
I also advocate for keeping valid simple models such as traditional CPM and not ruling it out.
The end user, the one in control of the means and methods shall be free to use whatever tool is fit for his needs.
Regards,
Rafael
Rafael,
Thanks for the explanation.
When a software calculates the early times (forward calculation) and suppose that there are no constraints (start later, no later, exactly on , finsih earlier, later exactly on etc.) the earliest time is nothing else but the length of the longest path from the start to the activity in question.
So I think, instead of this you are interested in - please correct if I'm wrong - that which preceeding activities form this path.
This is really interesting, because in a 2000 activity network you want to know that why this and this starts so late. In this case you have to perform a quite hard analysis to look for all the activities that define the start of the activity in question. Sometimes this chain can sonsist if dozens of activities.
If this is your problem, than there are several softwares that can offer some solutions for that.
First is MSP. In the new version couple of days ago I've seen a Icon called show critical or something like thatl. If you click on this icon it shows (in a different window) that which activiy define the early start of your activity in question, if you click on this activity it will show you the critical predecessor of it, and so on. So this is not a perfect solution but one by one, you can detect the whole path (chain).
I've got the feeling, that this can be solved by creating filters as well if the filtering functions of the software in question are advanced enough, or it can be produced by making short programmes (MS project and other softwares have their own language).
The software that we use in the university called ProJack (and it is available only in the Hungarian market at this moment, so it is out of your interest ) can handle this, we have icons in Gantt view, and the result of this that only the activity in question, and the definitive path into it will shown in the picture.
Miklós
Miklos,
out-of-the-box means the software in its basic deployment without the need of buying expensive add-on or external software.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_the_box
Not every country has the same per-capita income, for many of us software is expensive, even a single license of some software can cost several times the per-capita income of some countries.
For the average contractor at home, the cost of MSP is at the top of how much they are willing to pay. For long time I used SureTrak (obsolete and no longer available) and now I use Spider Project that is a scalable product at very competitive price, perhaps similar to Asta PP, both even provide for the unlimited distribution of free viewers and more functionality than most other software.
Regards,
Rafael
Mike,
But we do not only use FS relationships, does it means the AACE RP cannot handle links other than FS? Another limitation?
Take a look at the following schedule. It consist of activities linked only by FS relationships and there are more than two possible longest path as if all activities have the same priority then the possibility of a different arrangement is present. Therefore under resource leveling there is a possibility for the occurrence of multiple longest paths. I wonder if longest path theory is capable of displaying all possible combinations and permutations under true resource leveling. Under true resource leveling there is no fixed links between the activities, maybe the real model link is to a resource.
My request for a listing of the available American software that implements longest path is still unanswered. The easier way would be to ask the AACE International which software they considered when they decided Longest Path calculation was so necessary in their RP as to make so many references to it in their RP.
Ronald Winter said it is a complicated, I understood complicated to be done by hand even if not all functionality is needed by the AACE International RP. It is a computation different to float calculation and therefore I believe shall not be mixed, each shall be computed independently from start to finish. It would be naive to think the experts at the AACE International missed on looking for the availability of such functionality on the multitude of commercial software used in the USA, they know, it is not much for what I am asking.
In order to explore the functionality I need some affordable software that implement the computation, the cost of P6 just for this is not justified. P3 is no longer sold and now comes out their implementation of longest path is wrong.
Best regards,
Rafael
Hi Rafael
As Chris said in the AACE debate if you are not using FS links then you will never get a true longest path.
If you set the programme up correctly then most of the available software will generate the Zero Float critical path.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Rafael,
My English is just not good enugh. Could you explain this "out of the box" terminology for me?
Thanks Ronald,
I am aware of it and believe there is a possibility the external application is a better implementation and more capable but not everyone is hooked on P3 or P6. Perhaps it can also work with P3 files generated by SureTrak and seems like it cannot work with xer files alone, please confirm.
I have clients that use MSP on a very elementary level, it is enough for them. There is one that does small jobs like Marshall Stores, CVS Pharmacies and the like for local franchises, this client does himself his scheduling while I render him with quantity take-off services. I am interested in knowing if MSP provides out of the box implementation of Longest Path, maybe you can help me with this question.
I want to know what options other than Primavera/ORACLE he has especially if MSP does not provides with Longest Path out of the box. P3 nor SureTrak are any longer sold and P6 is quite an overkill for his needs, he is very comfortable with MSP and although my least favorite I agree with him it is his Best Fit.
This is also related to my objection of AACE International RP 29R-03 as it might be it is ruling out the software(s) the majority of the Contractors prefer to use.
Best regards,
Rafael
Rafael,
The subject of longest path is more complex than you may imagine. Schedule Analyzer Software includes a module called, “Longest Path Software.” With it, you compute a value for Longest Path for each activity, much like float is a value describing the criticality of an activity. You can read more at http://scheduleanalyzer.com/sa_long.htm. This software currently only works with P3 and P6.
Email: PPadmin@planningplanet.com
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