Just to check all comments, I got a lot from them. Cheers.

Hi

 

This topic help me a lot in developing my project. I will contribute more when I finished it.

Yes, he usually will have a role to play in the initial determination of the cost and schedule parameters, if he was on the project from inception.

Which buttresses Charles’s argument of working knowledge of processes and tools involved in the project.

On the other hand the project could be inherited, which reduces his input in the determination of the initial conditions.

Clive

Absolutely. It does what it says on the box. A Project Controls Manager should do exactly that, run the project controls - this is not just tracking, but providing the information (cash, resources, time) to the PM to make the best decision on action to be taken, if any, at the correct time when there are deviations from the agreed plan.

Hi Clive,

I see you’re back sorting out Charlie’s nonsense, errors and flights of fancy. I wish I had your patience, but unfortunately when I see somebody acting like a pillock, and trying to pass themselves off as some sort of expert, I tend to become a bit short with them.

Chris

Charlie
It was Andrew that discovered Marant not I

Charlie

I relsih the cut and thrust of genuine debate, however i find your method sadly lacking in substance, facts and merit and usually reliant on misinformed opinion, racial bias and common misunderstandings. I believe, judging by the posts of others who I perceive you refer to as my stooges and wanabes that others are of a like mind.

Your ability to pontificate on matters you clearly have little understanding of leads me to believe that paying the slightest head to your ideas will land the majority of planners in the proverboial brown stuff.

I was not playing devils advocate but making a valid point that your post eroneously suggested that project controls was about planning. I went on to suggest that it has a much greater role to play than planning and one that cannot always be carried out by a planning engineer "done good".

Once again you have failed to recognise the other string to the bow that is cash in its many forms such as cash flow, budget projection and monitoring thereof. Yes programmes are required but equally and as important are correct establishments of budgets.

My purported constant sniping at you is due to my inability to digest your random arguments. I will continue with correcting you as required, so that other readers are better informed and do not head your opinions without due consideration of contra views, be they lazy white managers who get paid too much or more objective planners.

Dearest Clive,

Here we go again. Why are you keeping on being negative and playing the "devil advocate". Dont be like your stooges and some wanaabe.

Clive, we are here more than one year and you are still reacting to my thread in the same fashion as before.

Please channel your energy by giving bright ideas like the Marant case. I love that. Show to the planning planet world that you are indeed senior citiezen worthy of respect

Anyway to rebutt your understanding of english language

You said "...believe they are about setting the course of a project, checking that it is being followed and manipulating elements to ensure success."

This is what my message is the fundamental of Project Control is Tracking. But first you must establish something to track meaning in our day to day work: The baseline program.

And to create a workable baseline program is a huge work for planning engineer. It is much more work in tracking the baseline program in the event the activities are more than 50,000. WHEW, whew, whew.

I intentionally mention just tracking for PCM to bait some bright ideas but sad to say, I did not get it.

Cheers,
Sensei
Successful Project Management Consultant

I thought it was pretty obvious Nieman!

Sensei
Successful Data Entry Clerk

I would like to think he had a role in casting the original cost and time data also

Oliver,

I agree with you 100%. It might be argued that the PCM should have some familiarity with using the different software packages, but I don’t think it is essential. As long as they know what is wanted and how this can be best delivered, this should be enough.

Chris Oggham

Hi,
IMO, Asked
1. What do you propose the scope of PCM should be. (reversal question)
2. If you are in the oil/petro(I am in this), asked the various discplines and problems that lies in each discpline.
3. For specifics one, asked for hands-on demo of 1 discpline in either E / P / C. The PCM should be able to draft out.
4. Asked what analysis system to deploy for control - planning and cost
5. How to reduce risk and provides effective control.
6. Efficiency with the various tool required.
7. The projects that is involved.

Have to know how to single out participation and causation, ie are u the reason for success of project or just a participant.

For qn.2, I manage to generate a general template for EP of all the discplines which goes into my head. :>

Hi,

These are the responsibilties in a big project environment for a PCS Manager. So you can ask questions to him according to your requirement / expectations from the PCS. (First you should specify the role and responsiblities of PCS Manager and obviously checking his/her skill relevant to the expectations will be easy)

But definetly not checking too much knowledge of Primavera skills as somebody mentioned here.

In depth knowledge is always a plus

Regards,

Sudharsan

PCS Manager (Project Controls Manager) : Role will vary according to the Project & Organization he is working for. PCS (from Project Management firm) and PCS (from Contractor) will have slightly different role.

PCS Manager will have the following dept. reporting / Supporting to him

1. Planning
2. Cost
3. Document Control
4. IT (can support them for tools & tech implementation)
5. Contracts Department

PCS should be aware of tools and technology BUT not mandatory to have in depth knowledge of products viz, P6

Softwares are tools only, it can’t be learnt over a period of time but not the PLANNING.

PCS Manager should have the vision on How to execute the Project within specified TIME & COST.

1. He should Develop the WBS (not P3 WBS) on overall Project
2. He should be able to write the following procedures

. Planning Procedure (including software to be used, activity duration shuld not exceed 15 days, how to updatge progress, how to give activity id, how to measure performance, reports to be prepared on regular intervals, what if analysis etc)

. Document Coding Procedure - How to number each document viz, Submittals, Shop Drawings, Other Drawings, RFI, MOM etc

. Develop Cost Coding Procedure - This will help to identify the cost of the project at various levels (not to confuse with cost of P3). How to use Expedition / Prolog / Excel or some other programme to develop cost worksheet.

. Develop Risk Management procedure

. Should Co-ordinate to develop PMP (Project Management Plan) or Project Execution Plan (PEP)

. Always Proactive to bring notice about the kind of risks, deviation etc in the Project

Like this he should be abel visualise and should create a good interface of Planning, Costing & Document Dept.

For a big Projects / Programme various dept Planning Engineers / Managers will be reporting to PCS Manager / Director.

In short PCS Manager should be well versed Planning, Costing & Document Management. He should create a common interface between all of them.

Due to lack of time, I could not write more detail role of PCS.

Bye

Sudharsan

Anoon,

I did use P5.

But only the fundamentals in such a way that I can prepare a resource and cost loaded schedule.

I master it in one week time.

The intricacy of P5, I was not able to grasp since I only have to prepare a resource and cost loaded schedule using P5. No update.

I have the software. This was the payment I request for the services I provided.

But the work environment I’m in is not using P5, so any skill I derive using P5 is useless.

Cheers,

Sensei

Hi Charleston,

There are many project controls/plannning engineers who can do far better than quite many project controls managers in UAE but their CVs may not reflect all that.Even their CVs do reflect but there are many other factors that are affecting them becoming project controls managers.

For your information, P3,P5 now P6 are just tools only to allow you to make scheduling but not planning.If one do not know how to use P6 or P5,then the same can be leart in no time, but basically planning engineer/planning manager/ project controls manager should know how to plan.He/she should know the time required for individual tasks, the sequence of work, cycle time analysis,cost engineering and so on. Beside all these requirement he should also know project management which would allow him to work with project management team closely and effeciently.He also should know contracts and it relation to the schedule and delay analysis etc.

Regards

Dinesh

But what happen during interview:

Some prospective candidates chicken, they are scared to show what they know about planning, so the best alibi, i got a good offer yesterday only (liar).

Some candidate bring their laptops, recent reports showing P3 schedule, S-Curve,, BUT BUT, when the proficiency hands on demonstration: The laptop got password which the candidates dont know the password. OK company will lend the company laptop, but when candidate used, candidate destroy the company laptop. NO exam possible

In conclusion: People acting funny when they say more than in their cv. That is why hands on proficiency is very important.

Cheers,

Sensei

And going back to the thread?????

Actually my question is very fair.

It is like this.

Base on your experience, please prepare a new hypothetical project (Villa Construciton, Residential Building Construction, Tower/High Rise Construction, Bridge Construction, Industrial Construction, Oil and Gas Facilties, etc.)

Limit the activities from 15 to 30 activities. The activity type should included task, milestiones and hammock.

Please demonstrate proficiency in export/import command
Please demonstrate proficiency in global change.
Please demonstrate assigning resources and cost.
Please demonstrate WBS and Activity Codes.

From the new project, please produce a Progress S-curve in Excel chart.

Please prepare a Narrative of your program and Progress S-curve.

What is planning?
What is Project Control?

Demonstrate expertise in system approach in Project Planning and Project Contorl.

I believe this is a fair requirement to a Prospective "PROJECT CONTROL MANAGER" candidate for employement

Yes,

But what company is paying $240,000 per annum?

Charlie,

What company is paying $240,000 per annum for a planner?

Oliver

Charlie,

I think the point is that a PCM doesn’t need to be able to use planning software.

Whether MSP of P3e, a PCM controls systems, processes and the planners who do the physical planning for him/her.

IMHO

MSP is nothing.

There is not imagination in MSP.

It is very easy to use that, in my standard, it is not really a planning tools.

This is a big problem here in planning planet because anyone can use MSP and call themselves planner, even labourers from far away land can punch the keyboard of MSP and call themselves the greatest planners on earth or PP.

Im sorry but this is only my humble opinion. IMHO.

HI,

Before you interveiw a candidate for Project Control Manager, you have to be praactical that not all written in the cv are correct.

The best way to hire a prospective candidate is to undergo hands-on proficiency in Primavera P3.

I have a lot of candidates for Junior Planning Manager but acting strange on the day of there schedule hands on proficiency exam in Primavera, Excel, Words, Access and Powerpoint.

There alibi: I took a good offer only yesterday around 15,000 USD per month all inclusive.

Anyone interested to work with me and undergo the process is most welcome. WE can arrange for online or virtual hands on proficiency exam, if interested. Just PM me.

Cheers,

Sensei

Oliver
I can’t remember that we quoted on such project of that size, so the risk you mentioned doesn’t fit. But I believe it is a good argument to reflect - thank you.
Regards
Dieter

Hi Oliver, Raviraj
This is no religious war. I explained how PCM is defined in the company I’m working for. My personal opinion doesn’t count. In other companies terms are used differently.
I really don’t understand why you don’t accept. We all are working in projects most of us for changing customers and so we are accustomed (or should be ..) to adapt to different environments, to live with different cultures, with different terms. No need to fight and to evaluate, but to define and to discuss.
By the way: If I would have to decide the terms, I would agree with Raviraj. I’ll try to modify the definition.
Regards to all
Dieter

Hi Raviraj
I wrote "templates to be used as bricks". I didn’t write "using the traditional templates (bricks) alone". Projects are singular, it would be absolutely stupid to restrict a schedule to templates/bricks. It must be: bricks + individual. But there is no need for always reinvent wheels. This I meant by effectively working.
You use a different definition than we do. That’s ok.
Please show me an international law/regulation where this term is defined. There isn’t any. PMBoK: Nothing. Even in Germany where we have a industrial norm for everything, it isn’t defined. So we have to develop the term by ourselves, live with different definitions, and then discuss.
Not all projects have a size of some billions of Euros or Dollars, that you need a team for project controls. Normal project life is different. Mostly one person will be ok (+replacement).
Regards
Dieter

Again, first its an item for definition second it depends on the size of project.If a project has a size that it requires more than one person for scheduling, he will more be team leader during project execution. We have some templates to be used as bricks, which makes life easier for the planner. As planning is easier in p5/P6 than in P3, this was another reason to switch.
A PCM who has a "complicated way of scheduling and reporting" would work for a different company. With an effective way of working he will have plenty of time to perfom the total scope of work.
Regards
Dieter

Hi Oliver,
the best basis for misunderstandings is no clear definitions of the terms. In the company I work for, a PCM among others creates and maintains schedules, and provides the required reporting inclusive performance measurement. In addition he may represent the PM and has a right for veto if there are not realistic scope of work, dates or budgets. This is quite powerful and requires some managerial behaviour. It’s much more than a scheduler, but he has to work with Primavera as well. It is not the team leader.
In other companies it may be different.
It depends on your team’s size and how it is staffed, if you only schedule the workload of your team or you have to work as a planner as well.
Regards
Dieter

It all boils down to what he knows about:
1. Role of a PCM?
2. His knowledge of Integrated Cost & Schedule Control
3. Earned Value Analysis (as Clive has said)
4. Problem solving approach
5. Work attitude as part of a Team

R. Catalan

Oliver
It’s a question of title I assume. PCM is not necessary the Head of Department, but as his position is very important and is staffed with some power inside the project, we have this title.
What should be the tool for project controls if not the schedule?
Regards
Dieter

Hi Daniel
With this wording I agree. Sorry for misunderstanding - it’s the difference between native and foreign language.

Hi Oliver
In the company I work for, a Project Controls Manager has to create and maintain schedules. We have P3e/P6 as a mainline - with some projects in P3 and MSP due to customer’s wish as well. So P3e or P3 is a requirement and I test it.
Regards
Dieter

see your back in Cheshire

Dieter,

I think you have taken the question very literally, every body knows that nobody can predict the future, let me re-phrase it. I think the essence of the question is what will you do (measures you need to do)as a Project Controls Manager to complete the project on time and on budget.

Cheers mate
Daniel

I would sit him at a PC, open a real project in Primavera and let him evaluate this project. He would be informed, this is the test database and so no risk to destroy anything.
By this I can see:
- Aquainted to use Primavera
- Which aspects are important for him
- How is his strategy in unknown projects.
- Does he realize strengths and weaknesses.
It would be some discussion on those items --> How does he react - or she, of course.

To Daniel:
"guarantee fulfillment of work schedule and complete the project within budget". A candidate who would say so, would not be hired. CntrlsMgr has to indicate, were are deviations, risks and to show ways out of the dilemma, but he isn’t able to guarantee for the future.
Regards
Dieter

Oliver have you moved?

Daniel
I would be interested in hearing everybodies answer to that tough question

Does he understand what earned value is
Does he feel that progress monitoring on s curves provides usefull information
How many activities would he expect to be critical on the tender programme
What does he think of Primavera and what does he see as its pitfalls

That should give you and idea if his BSC is more BS than SC

What are the early warning signs you look for when reviewing progress against the schedule, both on a project by project and at an enterprise level?