In the times of P3 we would be required to use Activity Codes instead of WBS, an easier to master method. But WBS is still similar and more powerful, therefore all software include a way to get WBS from activity codes.

Our most used organization structure was as above, top level for project, next level for areas, last level for CSI Divisions. Some Divisions where expanded at this level as to separate major subdivisions but never used another level for this purposes.

It is very simple, under each Area add the used CSI Divisions. 

You can switch the Area and CSI columns if you wish, I still find we need both, our software is capable of working multiple WBS so it is not an issue, even more when on a Portfolio where WBS shines as King of the organization methodologies. 

Yow can create a template using Generic Areas, each area with all CSI Division titles and when creating a new job simply change area names and eliminate those CSI divisions not used under each area.

Hi,

  Please let me know the best book to refer to create WBS in CSI format. Do we have to neccesarily take CSI exam to be able to use the standards effectively.

 

Best Regards

Hi Mimoune,
I understand your pleasure.
It is necessary to be satisfied and proud of your work.
I know these feelings.
Best Regards,
Vladimir

mimoune,

Of course you make sense, a lot of sense; as a matter of fact most of us consolidate multiple BOQ items per activity using a single value. This value we determine latter by cross referencing a spreadsheet to the BOQ items. Another approach can be using detailed cost codes within your schedule model, is a matter of preference and should yield the same results.

The Engineering Department or Estimating Department in agreemnt with the PM should give you the distribution after the BOQ is approved. For the updatings the PM or the person who prepares the monthly application should tell you how the billings are to be distributed into the appropiate schedule activities.

Don’t tell anybody our method of choice for this particular issue is to apply "Hammer’s Rule", that is if do not fit hit it with a hammer until it fits. We make minor adjustments to the costs assignments to make them sum same as BOQ. If the initial distribution was correct these minor adjustments are for practical purposes negligible.

Keep it simple; make your WBS(s) in the way(s) makes most sense to organize your schedule. They are just organizing codes.

Best regards,
Rafael

rafael;

of course bill of item = schedule activity, is an overkill relation and it does not make sens. specially for large contract. even some item are not represented at all in the schedule, like service (for example; hiring a water pump to the owner)

the problem is : items in BOQ are generally grouped (due to the fact that main contractor begin to bid work for subcontractor before the engineering phase is completed)it’s very hard to the planer to split the quantities across the detailed wbs.

for example in the contract you have 15 000 m3 of reinforced concrete, now in order to have quantity by each equipment foundation is very time consuming and i think is the work of engineering department or QS or whatever not me ;)

did i make sens ! ?

Hi skandar
First forget about P6, it is the last step and the easy one in order to develop a program not the first.

-Read the drawing, read the contract, read all the project specifications, I am sure you will not understand everything, try to see another project with the same work, ask helpers, welders, painters and discipline superintendents don’t be deceived if you get negative feedback, it is normal, they don’t like you, they think you are clueless guy who want to control them.

-Ask your boss, you need to make a workshop with engineering department, to define the wbs of your project.

-Once the wbs is defined, ask the engineering department to split BOQ using the wbs (that’s the hardest part), it’s their work not yours.

-Once you have this famous spread sheet with activities and their quantities split by the wbs, your work start now as a scheduler.

-For each activity put the efficiency, this is the quantity that your company can do in one hour using a standard crew (resources). Each respectable company must have this kind of database.

-Now define BQWS( total budget manhour) = budget quantity /efficiency

-Activity duration = BQWS / (8 x number of standard crew) , for simplification, I suppose your work day is 8 hours. And for the first iteration put one resource

-Now for each activity, put an id, define it as you like as long as it is unique.

-Now you have an excel sheet with all activities, budget manhour, budget quantity, and duration, split by wbs.

-Transfer this excel sheet to p6, and sit down with disciplines superintendent ( the guys who will do the work) and beginning linking activities.

-Now define your calendar, and schedule your program, make sure the total duration of your project respects the contractual durations, and milestones etc. if not crash your activities by adding more resources,

-Print your schedule in A3 ( A0 if you can), go back to DS, ask them what they think, take all their comments into consideration.

-Now you have a preliminary schedule.

Best regards

Dear Brothers,
Thnx for your support. I will do as per your suggestions then lets see what happens as I am new comer in planning.

Thanks to all ,also please give me ur personal emails (If you like) to contact in any difficulty or have a voice chat regarding my problems.

Regards,

Sakandar

Dear Sakandar,

I think that you can go ahead with points 1 to 9 and complete your work by including all the activities necessary to deliver the project. Put the WBS aside for now, because you are not going to use it at this stage.

Keep it simple and you will get a good Program of Works. You can add more options after you control your Schedule.

With kind regards,

Samer

HI Rafael,

I think we’re on the same page here. As I said in post #14, having WBS related to CBS may not be necessary sometimes, but if there’s a need, it can be done.

On the issue of if it’s happening in real life, IMHO, reality is very subjective. Based from my experience, reality in North America is not the same reality in southeast asia.

Dear Se,

To relate WBSW codes to BOQ means that there is a relationship between both while in reality there is no need for a relationship to exist. Tying one to the other prevents you to develop each independently. You should be able to develop your schedule using appropriate WBS without taking in consideration your BOQ assignments. Both can be developed independently and after both are approved then you make your assignments that most probably will not be exclusively one on one.

They are not related, just assigned, use of the term related is not correct. Maybe it is a subtle issue of language but is important to keep the distinction. I have seen schedule specifications that require you one to one assignments, a single BOQ per activity, maybe because of misinterpretation of the term by the person who wrote the specification.

Best regards,
Rafael

Maybe I didn’t quite understand the word relate as compared to assign in your previous post. Could you explain the word relate in the context of what we’re discussing because as far as I’m concerned, this is interesting because I don’t see the distinction between the two.

Regards,
Se

I am pretty sure you were asking how WBS and CBS could be related in your previous post, didn’t you?

Could you explain why it’s wrong? I know sometimes it may not be necessary, but I don’t think it’s wrong IMHO.

I don’t think MS Project can do what P6 can do in this regard.

Hi Rafael,

Your question about how WBS and CBS are going to be related. With all due respect, I suggest, if you have P6, that you explore how P6 works in this regards. This can be done. Cost accounts can span through several tasks in the WBS.

P3 is also capable of doing this.

IMHO

HI Sandy,

Don’t confuse yourself with WBS and cost breakdown structure. WBS should be organized to clearly show how the work will be executed be it by area, function etc. WBS should have a relationship with Cost breakdown, in the case of P6, it’s called cost accounts.

My opinion on this, don’t force your WBS to follow CSI format but use CSI format to assign resources, expenses using cost accounts.

IMHO.

Sakandar,

WBS is essentially an index under which you organize your activities.

Similar to the index on a book, just that by following it you will go to activities instead of the text of a book. Same as a book you can organize your index in many ways, is up to you and your needs.

Think of it as:

Name of Book (Job)
Next level (Volume)
Next level (Chapter)
Next level (Pharagraph)

You can organize your WBS on a piece of paper or using a word processor, at times easier than going directly to the software screen, is too rigid and difficult to edit.

I go directly to the Computer Screen because I already have my WBS Structure standarized for my particular kind of jobs and the standard we use here.

Best regards,
Rafael

Dear Brothers,
You are doing great job to improve the individuals skill of Primavera.
I have a question which I tried to think again and again but did not get an answer from myself. Actually I am bit confusd in understanding WBS.
I know that it breaks the project into manageable phases.
Please tell what will be my WBS in the following project.
We have a project that involved detail design, procurement, fabrication, and delivery of some tanks and support structures.
Now please tell me what will be my WBS for this project.

I am waiting or your responses anxiously.

Sikandar

Dear Sandy,

This is a great answer by Rafael. All you have to do is open your BOQ and the project layout/plans and start working on your WBS.

With kind regards,

Samer