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Creating not Planning!

39 replies [Last post]
Edgar Ariete
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The question is How??? Come & dig up all your references & what you gonna do next?

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Edgar Ariete
User offline. Last seen 1 year 26 weeks ago. Offline
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Posts: 184

Hi to all of you,

1. Rolyn, my problem now is more than solved with all of you on my side.

2. Charlie, yes we’ll go back to the basic...there’s no other way...

3. I think Raja is my partner...?he he he.

4. Remember the pyramid of Egypt or the great wall of China? What program did they used in building those? Maybe we can ask the big boys who created P3...I think technology is not enough in making a plan...Now we’re building a team...this is one of the basics I think...
Rolyn Jalea
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hi edgar...
can u specifically tell what ur problem is??? in what stage are u now? are you still creating your baseline programme or on the updating stage?
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hello, Helo,TO ALL

I just want to greet you hello.

In planning, it need guts. Guts come from the knowledge that only you know what your doing. The others look at you as miracle maker to create something out of nothing.

The plan maybe fantastic, the majority don’t mind as long as there is direction.

The above happen sometimes only and it will never be all the time.

So, that means, go back to the basic.

Regards,

Carlie
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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Hi Edgar,
Now u talking in same language, I agree with your word "There’s only one way to do real planning...If you know other way..?" .Why i agreed?, in my experience at site, there is so many Executer, Their idea somtimes unbelieveable, never been think before, somtimes its very simple way to solve the problem. So as a team we will find the best method that save cost, faster, safe. Thats why when planner doing their schedule until level4 they keep changes their links. This is the causes.
Edgar Ariete
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Hi Rolyn,

Thanks. Yes 100%...But don’t worry I can handle that..I’m just thinking that time element is critical.. And looking for the fastest solution will sometimes put you out of the way. Now I realised that there’s no other way. There’s only one way to do real planning...If you know other way..?
I’m open...

About your advice..??

thanks anyway,

edgar
Rolyn Jalea
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Totally agree with Raja, to become a multi-disciplined planner takes time and extra effort. Also, you need to learn other trades within the project scope because the project budget can’t accomodate planners in every discipline which I thinks adds to the challenge. Not all course taken up in Engineering can be applied on the real world, but the decision making and how to tackle a certain problem will surely be....
To Edgar, your from Phils? I have read you have taken some people on your side..hehehehe!!! but still IMO, don’t wait yourself to become emotionally breakdown before deciding to...resign!!!

Have a good planning day to all of you!!!
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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Hi Ulyses,
this is my opinion, no Planner is totaly know multi discipline or trade, but they learn / study for years, this is the basis. Some of the planners very proud cause of their hard working to learn other discipline field , not very easy to learn, its takes years. The Planner can be what ever they want to be by learning with correct method/ calculation, only thing is they not acceptable to certain area to make decision, its need competent person with Cert.
Example:
One planner major in Civil...Is this guy qualified to do firefighting schedule. If every discipline we have to find their own major ...how many planner we have to employ?
ulysses garcia
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I suggest in creating a risk plan the first thing to do in the checklist is the Qualification of the planner itself, As planners doing the job must have the specialty or experience to that specific work.i.e
Building
Oil gas
Bridges
Roads Dams
Nuclear Plants
Pipelines
Powerplants
etc. etc..
One should be familiar to each specific job to considered himself as a qualified planner not a micky mouse planning engineer as what i observed. some are doing all things as listed above becuase they know primavera software which is a big mistake in hiring a planner.
ulysses garcia
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I suggest in creating a risk plan the first thing to do in the checklist is the Qualification of the planner itself, As planners doing the job must have the specialty or experience to that specific work.i.e
Building
Oil gas
Bridges
Roads Dams
Nuclear Plants
Pipelines
Powerplants
etc. etc..
One should be familiar to each specific job to considered himself as a qualified planner not a micky mouse planning engineer as what i observed. some are doing all things becuase they know primavera software which is a big mistake in hiring a planner.
ulysses garcia
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In planning there are lot of things that needs to specialized. I notice some planners are already quiet proud becuase they knew well how to maneuver the premavera software, where in fact the most things planner to be called planners is to have experience to its specific job , i mean your exposure on the field of construction. I mean when a planner has experience in high rise building for example i’m sure he/she can’t be as effective in doing like oil/gas, refineries , roads and the likes, It’s very sad to say some planners they called themselve planners to all things which is in my opinion totally shit.. and unacceptable. hope you got what i mean..
Edgar Ariete
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Hello Raja,

Thanks for the story. I suppose you’re not selling P3? I love P3 too. If only you got all the time to load what needs to be loaded then it will run like...For me, data collection is the hardest part of planning.The tool is there, ready to use. Thanks to those who created P3...but P3 don’t collect data by himself...It needs a planner..I mean a real PLANNER!
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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Hi Edgar,
I got a story for U, its about monkey with P3.
1.Predict - first of all the monkey try to predict the P3, is it the same with other tree in the jungle. how the taste is?
2.Pretend - then he try to pretend he already taste and touch it.
3.Present - Then he present to his friends among monkeys of the jungle, that he already taste and touch P3.
The result all the monkey got some kind of plague which . the monkeys will scream, until now the monkey dont want to taste or touch the P3 again, only human being use it.
So u have to figure out this modern fairy tales story.
cheers
Edgar Ariete
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Hi there,

You know Raja, I used to do that in school...to be honest..
but now..? Never...I’m not a photo copying machine either..but wait a minute..I can make use of your weight = C.T.R. I thought about that for days now... a very very interesting formula...Imagine a weighing scale underneath the foundation....But that’s not practical either...Anyway, many thanks to Charles..Hi Professor...you’re one of the best if not one...Now, who’s resigning?
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hello Bill,

Your assumption is correct. I went to University. I taught in my Alma Mater for three years after graduation. I decided to leave the secured world of academe and plunge into the Wild Wild West of Construction.

I always have faith that planning and scheduling should be approach in the engineering way.

Cheers,

Charlie
Rolyn Jalea
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hi edgar,

I agree with Charles
IMO Planning Engineers are hired to give direction to the construction team. In creating a baseline schedule, planners & construction team must sit together and agree on a certain strategy in w/c a planner will reflect in his schedule, this way you will not be blaimed whenever things go wrong. Then while updating the progress, whenever there is a delay on a certain area, try to analyze the root cause of the delay, try to create a simple format as possible, you can do it either by graphical or tabular presentation so that even a non-technical man would understand your report (some people find it hard to understand progress using bar charts. Then, present all those information to your construction & management team for their action, pass the ball to them. If they don’t appreciate your effort, the best thing you can do is to RESIGN!!!! they don’t need a planner in that project, encoder is all that they want.
Edgar Ariete
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Hi to you all,

Really, I agree with you 100% Charles & Rolyn, you sounds like...we were born in the same land...? RESIGN! No. Raja is there...willing to help me.??

If you agree with me, Planning job is never boring....I just wanted something new...something faster & realistic..Keep on tracking Guys...

Thanks,

Edgar
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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Hi edgar,
Its good thing to ask and express your doubt about planning, the more question u ask.. the more secret appear, from there u can learn... I think u can copy charles post as a basic to start in planning career.

Another thing about helping u in planning, no problem, i will help u ... in planning to resign!!! Ha Ha just joking
Edgar Ariete
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Hi there,

Many thanks to you Gentlemen... I thought we’re not talking of any particular software here...

The subject is Creating not Planning...

Well if you think of something like:

A) Drafting tool + Cost Engr./Q.S. tool + Planning tool = Plan (100% baseline)

B) Field Surveying tool/Scanner + Drafting tool + Cost/Q.S. tool + Planning tool = Physical Progress (%)

I think we can connect...but you’ll loose your job isn’t it? Well, just thinking....

regards,

Edgar
Bill Guthrie
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Charleston-
Could not agree more.

Run into so many "Planners or Schedulers" who only have seen a university on TV or when driving by. However they call themselves Engineers.

I worked my butt off going to University to get a degree,assume same as you, and it really grabs me to see people passing themselves off as Engineers who have no degree.

Thank God in the States one cannot do that, or the Governmetn will nail them, but outside the states its a mess.
Cheers Bill

Charleston-Joseph...
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Hello Edgar,

Planning is never guesswork. Guesswork are only for Primavera encoders disguise as Planning Enginee (remove the R because they are not registered or recognized engineer).

This is where the superiority of engineering background is necessary for Primavera Planners.

For those real planners with engineering background, start with review/study/analyze/understand the plans and drawings, read the contract document related to the scope of planning activities, review the BOQ. Wisdom thought me to compress the thick BOQ prepared by QS into CSI Masterformat. The CSI Masterformat give meaning in the using WBS.

Identify meaningful Activity Description. For Primavera users, visualize the views, layout and filters that your comfortable or familiar or previous experienced. This will give meaning to individual Activity ID.

Identify the Activity ID, Activity Description, compute the quantities for each activity.

Establish relationship of Activities (Finish to Start-if possible). Run the schedule with data date as the start of project. A schedule is generated.

The above is only preliminary steps in creating a schedule by planning engineer. It is not guesswork. It needed brain that comes from five long years in college with extra years of actual field experience. Also the above is only for novice planning engineer.

It is still a long, long way to become experts.

Cheers and be inspired

Charlie
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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Maybe u can start with the experience u have and your technical background.... maybe i can gave a try to help u in planning... no problem at all.
Edgar Ariete
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Hello Raja,

We’re just warming up...We have not started yet.

Do you know how to start?

Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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Hi Edgar,
U seems like already give up.... how can i help u? u can send private message to me, or u can hire me to assist u.
cheers
Edgar Ariete
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Hi there,

Thank you gentlemen. Please try to count your fingers..Its easy right???...But can you count the prints on it? Without using any tool or machine???

Projects are like fingerprints...But you are not print counters...are you? They call you Planners!!! What does it mean?

Planning is not guess-work...

Please think about that...

Charleston-Joseph...
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Hello Edgar,

Exploding is not the answer.

Just relax and calm down. Your situation is not that bad.

Remember your PMT dont know what you are doing. The best you can do is play smart, cover your ass e.g., do the best you can to produce the report when the dealine come.

For progress reporting, you can use the built-in progress generated by primavera P3 (basically refered to durations, no resource loading) or you can prepare excel worksheet to come up with progress report.

Cheers.
Sukumaran Subaram...
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Edgar,

Charlie has explained to you very well. Since your schedules are neither resouce loaded nor cost loaded use the physical progress to calculate the overall percentage complete.

Go to site, walk through, visualize what is happening around and discuss with site supervisors / engineers on work progress. Collect the info and key-in the progress in your current work programme.

Once completed calculate the schedule, get the percent complete and update your report.

Also, suggest to copy Bldg A, B & C as a SUBPROJECT to one MASTERPROJECT file. IT will make your life easier to monitor the work progress in case if your management asking for overall percent complete.

Regards.
Shahzad Munawar
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Firstly face the problem himself due to some workload and try to resolve it. There are mostly planners who handle 6~10 projects at a time and genearte reports.

If you are totally unable to face such situation then talk to your managemnet who provide you asistance in this situation.
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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Hi Edgar,
There is so many type of solution and method as I said we are the driver, we are the schedule creator, So we should know how to solve and gave the solution for the problem. If the situation like u said it is simple we just go through BOQ we doing matrix Measurement or we go through the old planning databank we measure how many percent progress, resource..etc per square feet(little bit tedious).
But never seen the situation like u said... maybe this is first one.
Edgar Ariete
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Hi there, Raja & Charles,

I think I understand you both. Please consider the following: a) You are working on 3 high rise buildings at the same time; b) You got existing baseline plans which are very much similar to each other; C) The baseline plans are not loaded (no resources, no quantities,...nothing); d)Physical progress were measured at around 25% for building A, 28% for building B, & 2% for building C (measured based on the rule of thumb); e) You work alone (assuming that nobody from the team understands you); f) Your Q.S. is not cooperating...g) You got deadlines for the Reports...What you gonna do??? Explode???

Please create something.....other than P3 or something.....
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi Raja,

I understand your concern due to the work environment you are in. Also, I agree with your observation since I worked in the Petro-chemical, oil and gas sector.

It so happen that I also worked in Qatar for two (2) years and I know the company including the nature of the works involved. I maybe wrong since a lot of dynamic events related to construction boom happen in Qatar after June 2004.

Well anyway we will try to hear more from Edgar.

Cheers

Charlie
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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edgar,
Using Quantities and Feel is little bit diffcult to new planner(Unless there is support from QC) cause they dont have the experience to imagine / measure the resource capability to the job. example the most difficult is underground work fire fighting piping, trenching. They will loose the progress or overlooked.
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hello Edgar,

I think I know your dilemma. This is more related to the school of thoughts. Maybe your previous experience is related to the American School of thought while now it maybe your first time to work in an environment wherein the English School of thought is operational.

Fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with the two school of thought. And don’t worry, you are not alone, some were able to overcome the adjustment while some are still struggling.

You can use cost to measure progress. Get the total cost and use this as the denominator to arrive at the equivalent percent weight distribution. Another approach is to assign manhours to individual items, get the total manhours and use the total manhour as the denominator to arrive at the equivalent percent weight distribution of individual item.

Your physical progress is the quantities installed divided by the tender BOQ. For the computation of quantities you need to coordinate with you QS. But sometimes inter-department coordination will take too long to get the quantities. You can do a quick quantity take-off or you walk around and get the feel of how much percentage work was accomplished.

After you determined the physical progress, multiply the physical progress with the equivalent percent weight distribution to arrive at percent progress of individual item. You sum the total percent progress of individual item to arrvie at the overall progress.
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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edgar,
most of the planner here is in learning process nobody here is 100%... i also in learning process, but experience of having problem at work place will tell the planner is senior or junior. What i can say here the root planner must be good...Because i have experience working with Lead planner who just wait and see the project goes by, without doing somthing to achieve target. As good planner they have to drive the project, not just creating the plan and couldnt find solution to solve the problem that he create by himself.
Edgar Ariete
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Raja,

I’m not as good as you are...& you made me think that I need to learn more... I may not fit as a planner...I just want to know what you gonna do when you don’t have enough time to prepare a comprehensive plan & the available data is not even consistent with what you are trying to figure out?
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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Hi edgar,
Actually i never think about that much.. cause most of the project have their own contract / procedure.. but if there is option i prefer use weight...the reason is weight is equal CTR = Cost Time Resource =100%.
a. cost/duration its not equivalent with the procure, installation equipment , hydrotest etc.
b.If i use resource its seem very diffcult to monitor the manhours...i can say most of the project delay cause of loosing the manhours sleeping, brake time, play around at work site and etc.
Edgar Ariete
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Raja,

You answered it right....as a Planner. May I ask you one more question?...Which do you prefer to use as a weigting factor for computing percent progress? Cost, Duration? or Resource unit???
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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sorry edgar,
actually what is exact question U up to.... I try to answer..
Edgar Ariete
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No, Decide!
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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analyse...