Nestor’s list of competencies seemed to me to be quite useful. I would also add for consideration:
a) Claims analysis
b) Resourcing & leveling
c) EVA and other productivity measures
d) Contracts
e) Risk
f) Change control

These competencies should be proven either via peer assesment, and/or a written exam.

Education and experience are also important. I would suggest for full membership a minimum of say 10 years expereince, 4 of which could be substituted for a relevant degree. Experience can be proved by providing details of past employment to be checked, degree by a copy of the certificate.

Such a system is going to take a lot of manhours to setup, and a lot to maintain. Which is one of the main reasons I feel partering with an existing body with all the beauracracy, governance, legal support, etc already in place is a far better route to sucess than going it alone.

With reference to the suggestion that we use PP profiles (# posts, years of active membership, etc) to assess accreditation, that is not the way to get recruiters to take us seriously. all your PP profile deomostrates is your ability to use a discussion forum.

Dear Nestor,

Your idea is well taken by me.

I’m willing to lead pp members in this accreditation, but, but,

since there is BUT, BUT,

There are limitations. Time is not in my side. Also, we have to understand what comeptences/skills must someone have to be able to lead. What knowledge must someone possess to lead.

If I’m to lead, I will make it so simple this accreditation criteria to be set up and approve within/by PP community.

Regards,
Happy Planning and Scheduling

To All,

Normally when you mention experts you do not include yourself, but following Charlie’s post about the experts, here they are:

Carmen
Charlie
Clive Randall
Chris Oggham
Andrew Flowerdew
Dieter Wambach
Anoon Iimos

People mentioned above have more than 18 years experience.

Cheers,

Where r v leading to??

What if person with three years in PP and within top 20 active member, has limited skills. There are few members like that who keep on posting some useless stuff and even their IDENTITY IS FAKE.

Thread is about what COMPETENCIES / SKILLS should be recognised and NOT about active members

Because the other criteria in addition to the top five active forum

is

should be a member in PP for at least three years.

and that makes only one expert.

And so it is not fair.

We could used the top 20 forum contributors and should be at least a member of PP for at least three years.

That will inspire others to actively get involved in PP forum to become an accredited expert in PP.

cheers,
Happy Planning and Scheduling

WE can establish a creteris that the fisrt five active member in the forum will be considered ?????????

Expert in PP ??????????????

WOW that will be a simple "INDIA PASS" for me to be accredited member of PP.

by the way the term "INDIAN PASS" is mean to be the final rite of passage for a neophyte in joining a fraternity during my college days. It was very physical and too much violence, the way we used to do it.

Cheers,
Happy Planning and Scheduling

Charles,

We cannot standardized the software, there will be hundred of ETC.

It’s next to impossible.

Unless we get support by many, this task will not go forward.

Cheers..

BIM, so far, I find it good only for presentation, the client will appreciate it more than the traditional barcharts and curves.

Re competence and skills, this thread will not move unless supported by many or maybe we should shift the focus first on the extent of benifits the body can offer to the members.

Cheers

Charlie,

cross the box as 1 star post BMI meaning.

just Qrious about your BMI???

William,

thanks for your explanation

Cheers,

Carmin,

BIM (Building Information Model)

I can understand how you have confused it with B M I, obviously you haven’t been invloved with 5D.

My appoligies for assuming otherwise.

I will try to explain some of the fundamentals:-

It can be desribed as a shared digital representation of a construction project & that the information contained in the model is interoperable.
That is, it will allow computer to computer exchanges.
Further, that the exchange is based on open standards and is cabable of defining in contract language.

Put simply, (3D) CAD files are supplemented with a temperal dimension (4D) and further costed aginst the estimate (5D).

When the model has been developed (and during it’s devlopment) progress, changes, analysis of constuctability, projections and much more can be generated in real time.

Further explanations would be impractical in this forum, however I hope this is sufficient to clarify my original question.

Regards,
William.

William,

Sorry but BMI , mean ????

carmen

Shall we say joining member/apprentice member must demonstrate competency in the following as the minimum requirement.

1) critical path analysis
2) project management tools of their choice
3) writing programme narrative
4) updating/statusing programme (comparison with baseline)
5) writing status report
6) preparation and updating of dash board
7) ...
8) ...

and will become full member on proof he/she has actual experience on the above core task.

planning planet will establish the standards.

membership will be upgraded on proof he has hands-on experience on claim assessment, project control, etc.

again, pp will establish standards.

STRUCTURE:

1) Europe
2) USA
3) Australia
4) Asia pacific
5) Middle East
6) ...
7) ...

each region will elect officer and will send representative to central body.

thanks to modern tech. I dont need to fly to London to talk face to face to a person.

how about that. it’s to start. now you change/propose what ever you want.

cheers...

All

I was trying to draw the thread back to it’s title:

What competences/skills should be recognised?

Anoon - Planning is a part of management, a very important part. You don’t have to be a ’manager’ to be a planner, but you do need a good level of communication skills.

I was concentrating on CORE skills. Planners may be asked to look after lots of things. I’ve known planners that have been asked to get involved in procurement, (other than telling people what is needed and when), hiring labour, cashflow predictions... I could fill many pages up with tasks that planners are asked to do.

The tasks and expectations of a planner, (or job description), varies from company to company and even, job to job within a company, often depending on what resources are available or what the individual project manager thinks a planner should do.

But all these other tasks are not the CORE task of a planner. The CORE task revolves around managing the programme - yes, I used the word managing, because that’s exactly what a planner should be doing.

I don’t mean trying to be clever and using the programme to set up claims, I mean the setting up, monitoring and maintaining of a tool that will be an invaluable aid in the effective management of the project.

For that to happen the programme has to start it’s life as a realistic plan and then it has to be maintained as a realistic plan.

For the latter to happen, it will only be realistic if it is continually updated to reflect everything that is known at the time, (or as close as possible at the time as not every site has a full time planner). I’ve been known to update a programme several times in one day! Any "planner" who thinks updating the programme is something that is done once a month for the progress report needs to have a serious rethink of what the core purpose of his job is!

(The response to that statement should be interesting, I wonder how many people on this site I’ve just upset and what the excuses will be as to why when something new is known, the programme can’t be updated straight away - haven’t got the time, too many new things at once ......). By the way, I’ll support all the excuses, people not doing what I’ve just described keeps me in work.

Until the project is complete, the programme will always be a best guess prediction. It is the quality of that prediction, (which is ongoing until the project is built), that separates the keyboard jockey from the planner.

Judging a schedule as unrealistic can be for two reasons:

- Estimated durations out of reality

- Schedule logic out of reality : the logic is reflecting the work process or sequence of work.

At developing the schedule, the crystal ball is the best input of the whole TEAM and planner expertise .

Monitoring the schedule, the crystal ball is the best judge of the Planner at gathering work performance and forecasting completion dates. During this process the sequence of work might change to reflect the reality.

At this moment is when the team starts talking about unrealistic schedule because they do not want to talk about inefficiencies. Start the phase "Search for the Guilty".

Cheers,

Carmen,

There’s always a lot of unknowns, unforeseen events, hence the importance of no 2 on my list.

No person has a crystal ball, you can’t plan such events but many do nothing to update the programme when the "unknowns" become "knowns". Hence the programme becomes out of date, doesn’t reflect the known reality, is giving results that are meaningless and then the problems start.

Anoon,

The CORE competencies of a planner are quite simple. Forgetting all the other things a planner may be asked to do, it’s his/her job to:

1.Produce a realistic programme that is of use in managing the project
2.Update that programme to reflect actual progress, change, etc so that it remains a useful tool and gives realistic information for managing the project
3.Communicate that information to those who need it

Each can be subdivided, yes there are a million and one other tasks a planner may be asked to do, but first and foremost planning is about managing the project effectively by implementing 1 to 3 above.

May I repeat the question here, "What competences / skills should be recognized?" I too has a Bachelors degree in Civil Engineering (never mind where it came from but sure is legitimate in our place). Do you think I can practise as an Engineer in the UK or in the US? or any first world country considering that I’m coming from the third world?

Coming from the third world, doesn’t and I supposed will never give me freedom to choose.

So if one of the objectives of PP is to go global, then I supposed the standards to be established is meant to be accepted globally as well.

Andrew,

I can imagine that a degree in civil engineering does not give you any planning skill. But a degree in Industrial Engineering gives you an excellent background to understand key concepts in planning such as;
Critical path: I have calculated critical path manually. Of course no more than 50 activities.

Identifying risk: two statistics courses gave the ability to understand the concept of risk measurement.

Forecasting man-hours and cost: one course of microeconomy gave me the concept of understanding opportunity cost.

As a junior planner, my first steps into planning were guided by experienced planners. I am proud to have learnt with them.

Fully agree with you regarding that working on construction contractor side gives you the clear perspective towards planning and most important resources planning and control.

Looking back my academic time and first ten years of experience makes me feel privileged for two reasons: good academic education and excellent Senior planners and Project managers.

Looking at the present : no comments

Tick a box as compliment for these words: Listening to all sides and making your own choice is what life is about

Cheers,

U were writing so well in this thread so far but what happened to you now??

Also, if I can recall correctly (from his previous threads), ur so called Mr. CJO has done B Sc in civil engineering from Spain.

Education really matters a lot. Especially since u r working in middle east, u can easily figure out difference between Educated (& experienced) guy and Experienced guy.

Even here (in middle east), u can find carpenters, divers and fitters to be project managers who dont have any clue about gantt charts and wordings like Total Float still gives them too many options, but still client accept their CV’s and recruit them on board.

For me, still Experience and Education shud be the main keys for accreditation.

Cheers,

Let’s be reminded that a Bachelor Degree obtain from one country may not be honored in another country. As the case in HK, I can only join HKIE thru mature route where I must complete the required years of experience to qualify.


Cheers..

Andrew,
You are my idol.  I have so much respect of your opinion.
Well, having said what you had said, I will change.

For the best.

What happened is really more on like Rod Stewart’s song

"... I was only joking my dear, TRYING TO HIDE MY FEAR".

Basically, I have inferiority complex and the PP gave me an oppotunity to rise from my present emotional state and got the feeling of superiority.

But of course, as time change, I’ve been in this planet for four years now, the rant becomes boring, lunatic and irrelevant

so now I’ve made a choice

and you will notice in my future post.

Cheers,
happy planning and scheduling

Charlie,

One has to choose a career (or a specialty), and you had chosen one, right? You may not be recognized as an Engineer in the UK or in US, but I believe that you have all the right to be where you are now as you have chosen it (or is it not?).

Of course there should always be discrimination, but I supposed there will also be categorization (or leveling, like the schedule you are making). If they will impose racial discrimination, then there’s no reason of going global. Let them contain it in the UK, and maybe call themselves PP accredited UK Planners (elite and most expensive) and let the middle easterns and asians think of hiring them.

And what competences and skills should be recognised? I stand with my post below. The keys are education and experience. The latter might be misleading that’s why it needs to be proven.

Am I bias?

cheers!

Dave

What comes first in my mind (i just thought i had one), is that, it all comes down to Planning. And what are the skills/competences needed?

1. Education - Engineering or any related course (this one was chosen by the individual), and I think it is not appropriate for a Doctor (Medicine) to be recognised as a Planning Engineer.

2. Experience? - Yes (I believe a must), but how can it be proven (considering global coverage)? I suggest thru written examination / essay (done in private, secret and random).

3. All of the above!

Anoon Iimos
Jobless and Not Recognised