(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?
(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.
Can you please help me?
I have a Gantt chart with a Baseline and fully logic linked but as i record actual start and actual finish along with overall percentage complete the periods change, as they should. however i need to record progress not just against the view or table that im in, I need to record progress against the baseline.
The problem i am having is that, i set up a baseline so that i can monitor movement (slippage) on the programme against the intent, but as everything is link if i run a report against progress, the report would show that i'm not in delay even if it is late against the baseline.
what do i need to do, so i can run a report against a baseline?
Sorry if this sounds a bit gobbly, but i find it hard to explain....
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Hi Mike/Roberts,
I am going to invest in that book Mike, would you say its the best for a junior planner? Thannks for the insights into using a buffer task to keep the end date, I will also hide it!
ALso Robert, those addons are fantasic, I didnt even know they existed! Will be testing them soon.
Regards,
Conor
Mark / Mike,
This is an interesting topic, I too have had the discussion with site staff where I try to convince them that planning and scheduling are worthwhile pursuits - even on smaller projects. In fact when i started with my current employer they were very much in the situation which you refer to Mark, progress has been slow and frustrating since and there is still some way to go but some key people seem to be understanding and taking on board the key principles.
One solution Mark, which may help in the short or long term for your prediciment can be found on the Asta Knowledgebase (http://knowledgebase.astadev.com/). You will have to register, then go to the 'Download Centre' and 'Add-Ons'. With this add-on you can update a programme with actual dates (actual start, duration complete, duration remaining etc.) to generate an As-Built programme (for internal use / record purposes) and then by pressing the progress transfer button (appears in the toolbar once installed) transfers the percentages generated from the As-Built programme to another programme (ie. the baseline) as 'jagged' progress with the same Bar IDs. This allows you to update your as-built for your own purposes and quickly produce a progress marked-up 'static' contract programme for client reporting.
Hi Mark
You remind me of my early days in freelance Project Planning when I was asked to put together a programme for a new start on a middle range project.
Speeking to the site manager on site about the programme structure he said "I don't want none of dem link fings"
"Why not?"
"Cos' if you move one bit then all the rest move 'n all - thats no use to me."
Any construction company will benefit from a properly logic linked programme that demostrates a true critical path to completion.
With regard to finishings the critical path usually goes through the structure to M&E and out through Test & commission.
Other finishings depend on Weathertight conditions and the only decision is whether to work up from bottom to the top or top to bottom.
If your properly planned completion date is:
1. Earlier than contract completion date then put in a "Contractor's Time Risk Contingency" bar to take up the slack and control use of the float.
2. Later than contract completion date then give it a careful but honest review before declinng to tender or bulldng a delay contingency into your tender.
You may inform your managers from me that time is the biggest risk factor on any project and must be properly controlled.
I advise you to invest in the Ciob book "Guideline to Best Practice on Time Control of Complex Projects"
Best regards
Mike Testro
I do have it linked somewhat, so I know myself what is on the critical path. I more so link the substructure, enabling, superstructure etc but not the internal fit-out elements as these don’t really follow a critical path (at least that’s what my manager tells me). Most fit out tasks can start within a few days of each other & if necessary can run simultaneously so pulling a critical path from this is hard unless you have a method?
I realise the software CAN do much more but my superiors don’t let me reschedule the project as it may show the project completion earlier or later than agreed at tender stage. In the past they have had bad experiences being so honest with clients where by showing an earlier finish date has led to the client becoming over confident taking advantage adding extras and such. Also showing a later finish date than contracted (even through we could make it up at a later stage) as lead to panic in the past so for this reason we show them as little as possible, hence showing progress from within the contract programme.
Typically we undertake projects between 100k - £3 million so you must remember we are not on major £100m projects where disputes can arise. We pride ourselves on our relationships with repeat clients so disputes and the like are extremely rare.
Hi Mark
Without logic you might as well use an Excell sheet or any scrap of paper or Primavera P6.
It will take less than a day to put FS links into your programme otherwise you are wasting your time.
Best regards
Mike T.
Hi Mike,
The method you have stated would work wonderful in a world where I actually fully link my programmes. We do not fully link them therefore I do not reschedule my projects at each progress entry stage so maintaining an "as-built" based on each progress update is impossible. I do several other jobs in the company and simply do not have the time to fully link the programmes.
Given this I propose creating a "contract baseline", a "Progress baseline" and an "as-built" baseline. The contract programme will remain static. I will use the progress baseline to enter progress %'s once a month and create a new baseline each month called progress 13-01-13 as you recommended.
To create my as-built I will revert to the "As-built" baseline making sure I display the contract baseline also to ascertain the variance. I will then move each live bar to the Actual Start/Finish dates and merge the new baseline. I will not enter any progress into the as-built baseline, I will only do this in the progress baseline based on my static contract dates. (i realise that is confusing but its the only way I know how to describe it!)
Am I correct in assuming there is no other way of doing this given that I don’t reschedule at progress periods and don’t report against actual starts & finishes?
Also when I create a new baseline for progress i.e. "progress 18-02-13" should I then work off this baseline or keep entering progress periods in the contract baseline?
Hi Mark
Most companies like to keep secrets from the Engineer because they think it puts them in control.
It usually comes back to bite them when the unreported delays are obvious.
If you are running two reports - Engineer and Internal - then the best way is to have two construction programmes:
1. Finishing on time for the Engineerr
2. Finishing early for the Contractor and Sub-Contractors.
The easiest way to set up the early finish target programme is to save a copy of the Engineer's programme and increase the work hours in the saved calendar which will give you a shorter construction period.
You can then use the same progress data on both programmes - just don't get them mixed up when reporting.
When interrogating a Baseline Programme submitted for delay analysis one of my early checks is the work hours in the calendar so make sure the Engineer's programme has the correct work hours or it will drop the claim at the first check.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Thanks for the good advice Mike! What you saying is not to have separate client and internal programmes basically? I would like to do it this way however my manager would not agree as historically that is how my firm has ran things, if it were up to me I wouldn’t do it this way at all.
If I was to keep reporting using an internal as-built & an external contract based programme what would be the best method? Using a contract baseline & a mirror "as-built" version of the contract for client progress meetings?
Hi Mark
I would enter progress on the original file and then save it with a date code - "Progress-YY-MM-DD" - so that it drops into the file list in the correct order.
Then create a baslene for each update - Use the Baseline title option to display rather than the chart path.
If you create more tasks then use the "merge" feature to set them into the baseline.
In the columns you can set up a Planned % complete to show against Actual % Complete from the current baseline.
When rescheduling set the drop down line to Straight - not jagged.
It is not a good idea to keep actual progress hidden from the client as it goes against any EoT claim you may want to present later.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Hi Mike,
I ask you this as I know your knowledge within ASTA PP. I have some similar questions for you relating to maintaining progress & having an as-built record (this is my goal). I have never created as-builts before today and only update my programmes monthly/weekly (within the contract baseline) when we have a progress meeting. I have never been trained so I am learning as I go.
Should I be creating a separate baseline for progress & one for my as-built so that i can easily revert to-and-fro and compare to the contract programme? I ask this as from what I read planners typically have a contract programme baselined and move live bars to show "actual starts, variance etc"? This then creates a problem when I want to report progress from the static contract programme as the bar will have moved due to maintaining an as built record.
Am I missing something here? Note that I only ever report to the client from the contact baseline and have "start, finish, duration, slip & notes" as columns. The as-built is only for me and the teams use.
I have also heard that I should create further baselines each time i enter progress as you describe above. Do i continue to enter progress in the contract baseline or go from these monthly/weekly progress baselines?
If any of this is confusing (as it is for me) for you please ask. Help out an aspiring planner please!
If it helps I can email you the programme in question.
Hi Dean
Welcome to Plannig Planet
You can create as many baselines as there are report periods.
I prefer to set up my baselines in a file where the working baseline is stored - I give each one a unique date based name using leading zero's - Progress 13-01-10 for 10-jan-13 then drop into the list in the correct order.
You can then show the shift from current to any one of the earlier report periods.
This also creates a reliable As Built Record.
It is possible to roll up the first baseline every time by using the merge feature on the baseline manager but you lose the rolling record.
Each baseline is a shadow of the current chart and you can open it up and change it as any chart but you may lose the merge feature.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Email: PPadmin@planningplanet.com
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