Guild of Project Controls: Compendium | Roles | Assessment | Certifications | Membership

Tips on using this forum..

(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?

(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.

Developing Tender or Proposal Schedules - What level is good?

14 replies [Last post]
Raul Santos
User offline. Last seen 5 years 23 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 44
Groups: None

What level of schedule is a good practice for Tender or Proposal Schedules? I have been requested to develop a tender/proposal schedule for a bid and they are asking me to include customer milestones and the activities that are linked to these milestones (activities from the engineering, procurement and construction phases). To me this would be like developing a Level 3 Schedule. I think tender or proposal schedules are developed at a Level 1 or Level 2 (executive level; not much detail); once the contract is awarded, then a Level 3 Schedule can be developed. Subcontractor companies that execute construction works develop a Level 4 Schedule. Am I right or wrong?

Replies

Jayan Chacko
User offline. Last seen 1 year 18 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 7 Oct 2009
Posts: 10
Groups: None

Mike 

Agree with you on ideals. 

However, in the current market situation when companies are looking to latch on to any project that comes their way, i have seen tender documents which are very vague while defining the specifics of scope. Tender drawings developed usually to (40-60%) detail contain very little information. While pricing, the tender team definitely evaluates the risks associated and factor it in in the price. However, it might be difficult to factor in too many unknows in the tender schedule. 

Without assuming the same for the entire Middle East, at least in UAE when Clients and Consultants refer to Program levels they usually expect a tender schedule broken down to activity level (Level 4). Whether the schedule is resource loaded & cost loaded depends on the Client requirements. All said, in most standard projects i have seen a tender program being only a 1 page document. 

Mike Testro
User offline. Last seen 1 week 4 days ago. Offline
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 4418

Hi Jayan

If there is enough detail in the tender documents to price the work then there is enough detail for a level 4 tender programme.

That should always be the starting point.

Best regards

Mike Testro

Jayan Chacko
User offline. Last seen 1 year 18 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 7 Oct 2009
Posts: 10
Groups: None

For me, the level of detail to be followed depends on the following:

1. The schedule requirements if any, mentioned in the Tender documents.

2. Past experience with the Client.

3. Details with regard to scope that is available in the Tender documents. (most important)

Mike Testro
User offline. Last seen 1 week 4 days ago. Offline
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 4418

Hi KS

You have got it totally wrong.

Programme levels relate to the level of detail.

Please do a search on the PP site for the many topics that set this out.

Meanwhile this is it.

Level 4 - Indiviual tasks.

Level 3 - Summary of tasks

Level 2 - Zone wherein summaries are located.

Level 1 - Whole project

Best regards

Mike tTstro

KS Wong
User offline. Last seen 12 years 39 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 17
Groups: None

 How we define each programme level?

Level 3 = duration not more than 4 weeks, Level 4 = not more than 1 week, Level 5 = not more than 1 day etc.???

 

In case the tender programme is a part of tender assessment document and there has no specific requirement stated in the tender document, if you are the assessor, would you give higher mark to the tenderer with a programme of higher level? If yes, we should prepare the tender programme in detail as far as possible.

 

Just extend this question further, would you give higher mark to the tenderer because of using higher capability programming software?

 

Regards,

KS

Naveen Paladugu
User offline. Last seen 7 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 7 Jul 2010
Posts: 47

I have been preparing tender programs from past 6 months. Level of programme would depend on the client requirement and Scope of the work. Most of the times,I prepare level 3 programme. Some clients ask for a program that fits in one page then I have to go for level 2. 

jeoffrey reyes
User offline. Last seen 3 years 40 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 214

Hi Raul & Mike,

 

Like Mike, I am doing it also bottom up and in level 4. It is easier to do that way.

 

Cheers,

JEFF

Satish Kumar
User offline. Last seen 7 years 7 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 8 Feb 2010
Posts: 56

Dear Raul,

The required level of Schedule depends on the data available at the time of tender. If you have detailed drawings, I mean if a detailed project report is already available about the project then you can opt for level 3 or even further. If it is BOT or Lump sum (including design in your scope) then L2 (better  not to assume too many things) should be fine.

 

What I want you to take is "It all depends on the clarity about the scope of work"

Hope this helps

K

 

Daniel Limson
User offline. Last seen 4 years 35 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Oct 2001
Posts: 318
Groups: None

Shareef,

Time Chainage is time-location planning that helps planning engineers in construction and civil engineering industries plan and manage linear construction projects such as road, rail, bridge, pipeline, power cabling, canal and tunnelling projects. Major activities are represented by multi colored lines which basically tells you where that particular activity should be at a certain point in time. 

There are softwares available like tilos, however, excel is good enough for me, I use the excel chart to plot all the lines and super impose it on my timescaled/time chainage sheet and convert it to PDF and then I get an excellent time chainage programme.

 

Mike,

We may have a difference of interpretation when it comes to level. Can you basically define what you percieved to be the right level of detail for each level. Who knows we maybe talking of the same level.

 

Best regards,

Daniel

 

Mike Testro
User offline. Last seen 1 week 4 days ago. Offline
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 4418

Hi All

How do you know that your level 3 tender programme will work?

You are just guessing - and most likely guessing it wrong.

It is so simple to set up a level 4 bottom up cascade for every level 3 summary and just copy paste the level 4 detail under the summary as required.

Thus a Fit Out cascade for floor level 8 can be copied and linked for every level down to zero.

Even better is to keep a library of all level 4 cascades that you have ever produced and just paste them in.

Doing a bottom up tender programme at "programme level 4" can be quicker and more efficient than level 3 with SS lead lags.

Get it right first time and you won't go wrong thereafter.

Best regards

Mike Testro

Wilfredo Barbacena
User offline. Last seen 8 years 8 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 May 2009
Posts: 30

Hi Raul,

Based on my experience in the middle east they would ask for level 2 or 3, but it's more advisable to read the contract or tender requirements. Milestones can be created in the first part of the WBS be it in level 1 or 2, you need flexibility in your tender schedules. The client would usually browse immediately the milestones for comparisson of their master schedules before going thorugh individual task or activities.

 

Regards,

WSB

Shareef Abdul Azeez
User offline. Last seen 2 years 39 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 183

"I must say that they are getting more sophisticated nowadays"......I totally agree; especially in the Middle East right now after the Recession, there are not many new Projects and the competition is really high to get a project.

 

 

What is " Time chainage"   ???

 

Could you please explain   ???

 

 

 

Best regards

Shareef A Azeez

Daniel Limson
User offline. Last seen 4 years 35 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Oct 2001
Posts: 318
Groups: None

Hi Raul,

I am doing a lot of tender works right now and normally the programme they require will depend a lot on the Client and their appointed consultants experience. Normally, you can find the programme requirements in the tender documents. I must say that they are getting more sophisticated nowadays.  It is a good thing that I had the opportunity of doing tender programmes in the Middle East and Hong Kong and had a good comparison of their standard practice and they are quite different. While I can do away with one liners in the Middle East (level 1 or 2), here in HK is quite different. In most cases, on top of the tender programme, you are also required to do a time chainage (especially for Railway and Highway projects). The standard thing here is level 3 programme (duration not more than 4 weeks and resource loaded) with a narrative report, discussing or narrating your programme basis and assumptions, production rates and the critical path and comparison of milestones completion dates.

Regards,

Daniel

Shareef Abdul Azeez
User offline. Last seen 2 years 39 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 183

I personally feel a level 3 programme would be good.

But finally it depends on the Consultants representing the Client to decide what level is required, depending on their experience.

Some consultants would really like to analyse bids from different contractors based on the critical path, the float available, the productivity rates, sequence of various phases of construction.

 

Recently I had the same situation where I prepared a Level 3 tender schedule but my project manager was not happy with it and asked me to submit a Level 2 schedule. I summarised the schedule and submitted. After a month we got a letter from the bid committee that they require a level 3 schedule with in 1 day to finalise the tenders. Luckily I already had it...

 

 

Best Regards

Shareef A Azeez