A T

Changing the workweek is by itself a change in calendar related to how shift definition works.

What happens if the shift definition needs to temporarily be outside the boundaries of the resource calendar-workweek?  - Say resource calendar-workweek is from 6am to 4 pm and the shift definition needs to be from 2 pm to 9 pm during a specific period?

How P6 handles such scenario? - I am not sure the shift definition will override calendar workweek. Maybe you will need to expand the resource calendar-workweek, a calendar change, and from there use several shift definitions, this should not be a big deal.

Your question about calendars and shifts is of much relevance, the devil is in the details.

Thank you for such an interesting question,

Rafael

A T

Going back to your original questions:

Do you need to reflect this night shift works in the calendar?

• The resource calendar is used to determine when the resource can work; the limits for that period are determined from the shift definition for that resource.
• You define work shifts as suggested by Oracle as per following link.

•  https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E90748_01/client_help/en_US/helpmain.htm?toc.htm?define_resource_shifts.htm

What difference does it make to the schedule if you change the calendar apart from changing the activity durations?

• The resource calendar is used to determine when the resource can work, if you change it you change when the resource can work.

There are several other serious issues though. 

Primavera P6 cannot adequately model resource production rates [if at all] and therefore activity duration will be modeled as if different production rates among the different shifts do not matter. Try to model the scenarios under my post of Thu, 2018-11-01 16:10 if using P6 and see it by yourself.

Resource leveling when shifts are used is tricky, error prone and in some cases errors unavoidable as shown in the following reference.

• https://tensix.com/2018/05/using-multiple-calendars-in-primavera-p6/
• - “And there really is no good patch for meshing these differing shifts together. So avoid assigning linked activities a different shift calendar. Again, multiple calendars with identical shift start and end times are acceptable.”

Under certain circumstances shift resources will not be adequately leveled.

• https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E63417_01/client_help/en_US/helpmain.htm?toc.htm?define_resource_shifts.htm
• - “This note applies only when P6 Professional is connected to a P6 Professional database because leveling in P6 does not consider shifts.”
• - “The minimum resource availability for every shift must satisfy the minimum demand for the resource so that the resource can be leveled properly. Limits defined outside the boundaries of the shift definition are ignored.”

There might be issues with partial workloads when using a single shift, when using multiple shifts the same problems can be expected.

• In my posting of Mon, 2018-11-05 09:23 slide no 6, such issues are illustrated using a sample scenario if using Microsoft Project.
• Because renewable resources are assigned as unit of effort but not quantity it is possible P6 will yield results similar to Microsoft Project.  Currently I have no access to P6, I had it years ago, I have not been able to discard it does not happen if using P6.  For the moment this question I see to remain open.

Best Regards,

Rafael

Anoon, it is not necessary to have Spider Project for asking questions about Spider Project capabilities.

Besides you can download Spider Demo and try it yourself.

Sir Rafael,

Please let me know your email add so I can send it.

Raymund,

Please post the XER file on a file hosting service so I can understand what you have done.

• It is impossible to verify it is same model by using screen captures if you do not have access to the software. 
• Impossible if the original screen capture dissappears.
• If inadvertently using reduced availability and/or inadvertently using several other parameters different to the scenario requirements the model would not represent the same scenario. 
• Among other parameters reduced availability can delay third activity as we all know.
• Involuntary errors do happen and must be ruled out.

I do not have P6 license but can read XER files using other software or using a text editor.

Best Regards,

Rafael

Dear Annon,

we do not discuss construction technologies, we discuss problems of project controls.

It looks like you shall leave PP and find another forum where the ways of pouring concrete will be discussed in details.

Best Regards,

Vladimir

Anoon,

It looks like you don't know what are the real schedules usually consisting of thousands activities.

In other case you would not suggest Rafael to show them in the forum posts.

It looks like you do not want or cannot describe the project for starting discussions on Spider Project capabilities.

Please create new topic in the corresponding forum if you want to discuss something special.

It does not look nice to discuss problems that are not interesting to the topic author and waste his precious time.

1. Named Resource Pete is assigned to Planet Role A, Also Named Alberto is assigned to Planet Role B.

pplanet_7.jpg

Raymund,

Please use named resources without using roles as most people do and show the results.

If there were no difference betewwn roles and generic resources then one or the other is not necessary.

If it fails to show same duration then there is an issue. If using P6 roles it shows different sachedule as if using named resource without using roles there is another issue.

As far as I recall P6 role functionality is not the same as true skill replacement. It cannot even do the basic automatica substitution of one resource for another, it cannot do automatic replacement of a single resource with a multi-resource consisting of two resources as it happens when a single planning engineer can be replaced by two rookies working at a different production rate.

Please see Page 29 of the following reference.

https://www.ronwinterconsulting.com/Reviewing_Resource_Leveled_Schedules.pdf

• The process does not allow P6 to automatically substitute one resource for another.
• P6 cannot automatically convert one type of resource into another (say two Journeymen for one Expert.)

Best Regards,

Rafael

Sir Vlad,

Yes. it is 20hrs. 100m³ with Crew (2 Workers) and the Output of the Crew is (2+3=5m³ /hr)

pplanet_4.jpg

Sir Raymund,

if activity budgeted units are 100 pieces, and assigned resources have productivity 5 pieces per hour (2 + 3) then activity duration shall be 20 hours, isn't it? P6 shall calculate activity duration basing on these data. But it is different in the screen that you published. Why?

Besides, volume of work is activity property. You showed budgeted units assigned to resources (100 to each). Why?

Sir Raymund,

thank you for your answer.

If budgeted units are set as physical units then assigned resource productivity shall be set as budgeted units per hour, isn't it?

I would like to see the P6 scenario where activity budgeted units are 100 m3 and the job is done by two resources with productivities 2m3/hour and 3m3/hour. Very simple case.

About your question to Rafael:

Workload means the percent of work time the resource is busy on certain activity.

So in your example both resources (A and B) have 8 hours work day. One (B) if fully loaded on the activity and another spend on activity only 60% of work time (4.8 hours per day) and so have 3.2 hours of day work time that may be used for something else (for example on another activity that requires 3.2 hours per day of his work time).

So resource A availability is 16 hours/day and it is assigned for 4.8 hours/day on each of three activities in Rafael's example.

Anoon,

I understood that you want to test the tool and not my planning capabilities. Of course in this scenario you are the planner that wants to try new tool capabilities. Do it in Spider Project forum.

Sir Vlad,

Do you measure budgeted units in meters, tons, cubic meters, etc.? ... Yes Budgeted Units are measured in Tons, M³, m², LM etc.,

Sir Rafael,

Let me clarify the terms Workload and Quantity in your Sample. As I understand Resource A (2#s) is working for only 4.8 hrs out of the 8 hrs/day and Resource B (3#s) is working full time of 8 hrs out of the 8 hrs/day.

Is this correct?

Anoon,

this became pointless discussion. Of course any software is management tool and makes calculations basing on entered data.

You wrote that you want to see how Spider will model your project but do not want 1) start this discussion in Spider Project forum, 2) describe your project in details to avoid different understanding of what do you want to model.

For your information: Spider Project and P6 use different algorithms and use different approaches to modeling projects. They have also different modeling capabilities that was already mentioned in this discussion. And they may create different schedules for the same project as was discussed here http://www.planningplanet.com/forums/planning-scheduling-programming-discussion/574396/comparison-resource-levelling-algorithms-di

If you are interested in learning how Spider Project models some projects or situations that you may suggest, make the proposals in Spider Project forum. It does not make sense to continue here.

Anoon,

I can accept the schedule created in any tool including Excel and will show how it looks in Spider Project.

If you are interested please move this discussion to Spider Project forum and describe your project in details:

1) The list of activities

2) Activity dependencies

3) Activity volumes of work in physical units and their durations

4) Assigned resources (people, machines) and their calendars

5) Required materials (by activities and resources) with their quantities (total or per volume or time unit)

6) Resource and material costs (if you want budgeting)

7) Project constraints

You may also suggest to model uncertainties in volume, duration, productivity, costs (or anything else) suggesting minimal, expected and maximal values and risk events that may happen with expected probabilities. For risk events describe the impact - what they will change in your project if happened.

I will be glad to enter your information in Spider Project and show anything you may require in Spider Project forum.

Raymund,

In order to follow how you relate partial workloads and resource quantity please show how you would handle the sample  3 activities scenario shown in slide 6 of the following presentation using generic resources as well as named resources.

1. If you schedule the work to happen within same day the software shall warn you of resource quantity overload, otherwise it is unreliable.  What it is showing? 
2. If you use P6 automatic resource leveling will it get reliable results?

Best Regards,

Rafael

Sir Vlad,

My response are as follows:

• we use activity volumes in physical units and calculate activity duration basing on assigned resource productivities.

P6 has Budgeted Units (Quantity of Work) and Calculate either the Duration or Productivity rate upon setting up the Duration Types.

• we simulate work in several shifts for getting realistic plans and right data on the numbers of workers required on construction site,

P6 can generate number of Workers from the inputs of Man-Hours or Man-days per Duration.

• we remember that continuous jobs like concreting shall start and finish on the same day,

Concreting may take more than a day and continuously until the element is completed; for example such as Raft foundation of a high rise and slip forming casting of a Silo.

• we plan construction jobs defining minimal and maximal quantities of assigned resources to avoid unnecessary delays,

This is a Planning Skill of a Technical Planner and Scheduler. But not the IT Planning Tool user.

• we assign resource quantities and workloads instead of man-hours like people do,

In my experience, I assign Quantity of Works and Unit Prices to generate the Planned Values. This is where the EV is obtained.

• we take into into account that different resources may have the same skills and may replace one another on certain assignments though with different productivity,

In my experience, I assign a Crew for a certain Activity. The Crew may consist of Foreman, Skilled and Unskilled. The productivity of the crew and number of worker per crew is obtained from experience.

• we try to create the shortest feasible schedule taking into account resource, cost, space and supply constraints.

This is a Planning Skill of a Technical Planner and Scheduler. But not the IT Planning Tool user.

The above is Good for Manufacturing and Construction.
I am actually referring to a Resource (Material, Labor & Equipment) that will be assigned to different task in which for example the Foreman shall man the Steel Fixing then go to other area to man the Formwork then go to the office to verify the drawing then go to the other structures with ongoing casting of concrete. These cannot be modeled in a construction schedule.

As I explained above, P6 can also function as what you say it can be done in Spider.

Raymund,

maybe we have different experience.

We plan construction works as people do considering all factors that people consider when schedule their work.

In particular:

• we use activity volumes in physical units and calculate activity duration basing on assigned resource productivities.

• we simulate work in several shifts for getting realistic plans and right data on the numbers of workers required on construction site,

• we remember that continuous jobs like concreting shall start and finish on the same day,

• we plan construction jobs defining minimal and maximal quantities of assigned resources to avoid unnecessary delays,

• we assign resource quantities and workloads instead of man-hours like people do,

• we take into into account that different resources may have the same skills and may replace one another on certain assignments though with different productivity,

• we try to create the shortest feasible schedule taking into account resource, cost, space and supply constraints.

What of the above is good for manufacturing but useless in construction?

And please show us how "P6 can also functional with that examples."

If you want to see how others would schedule Concrete Footings I suggest you create a separate discussion, if you want to make sure Spider Project users get into it then create the discussion under Spider Forum.  In this way we will avoid hijacking the discussion away from A T, the creator of this discussion. 

I will keep posting examples in this discussion related to the main topic initiated by A T - calendar changes and shift models.

I will avoid as much as possible not posting here examples that are not related to the main topic initiated by A T.  Usually Concrete Foundations is an activity that can be scheduled without the need to use more than one shift, partial workloads on some assignments will do it. At times a single activity will render better model, at simes several activities are needed to get a better model, this we can discuss under separate topic. 

Anoon, you wrote: I guess P6 can always do the same.

Not always:

P6 does not simulate the work in several shifts,

P6 does not work with work volumes and resource productivity,

P6 does not take into account material, space and cost constraints,

P6 does not allow for continuous activities,

P6 does not simulate variable resource assignments,

P6 does not have skill scheduling,

P6 calculates poor resource constrained schedules and a lot more.

Installation of Materials are consumable resources that represent volume of work, if used on same activity they represent different volumes of work on same activity. Same as regular renewable resources they must be leveled, if not available activity execution stops. Because their installation is a function of brick installation it is enough to model Bricks volume of work for activity, you shall be able to view materials installation/consumption within a view or a report. Now we are talking about models a tad less easy. A detailed discussion of this belongs to different topic.

In this scenario materials are to be delivered once a week by barge to a remote island.

Once you get a good model automatic resource leveling comes at a single click, a piece of cake. Creating models for different shifts on same activity is usually a piece of cake if using Spider Project. I expect it to be the same if using P6. Needless to say that more complex scenario can be difficult but my sample scenario is easy, it is about a single activity, cannot be any easier.

As I see it, it is just a matter of learning how to use the software.

If not that easy, that is fine, what is not acceptable is that you cannot model different shifts on same activity and get reliable results without using manual adjustments. Artificial splitting of activities is wrong, no matter the purpose.

The following video showcases how artificial splitting of activities can yield undesired results.

• If Activity 1 is split but its execution shall be contiguous depending on resource demand and availability resource leveling might or might not schedule undesired non-contiguous execution of sub-activities. If you add resources A then it might schedule contiguous execution of sub-activities.
• It might be that initially sub-activities are scheduled contiguous but if delayed they might be scheduled non-contiguous. The might or might-not must be eliminated in order to get a good model, you eliminate it by avoiding artificial splits.

Artificial splitting of activities is not a good practice, unfortunately there are many who promote the contrary by requiring all activities to meet some maximum arbitrary duration, the workaround being artificial splitting.
 

The example I provided is for a single unit of work that drives the activity duration.  If there is another unit of work that drives activity duration in such case their volumes of work are not incidental but independent, if two independent volumes of work it makes two activities and merging the two into a single activity will be as wrong as splitting the activity in my example.

Anoon,

Same as Vladimir I cannot follow your request but It is enough to show the one activity sample schedule I already provided. It is a no brainer, if activity start moves so do shifts start, because shifts have different production rates the activity duration changes. If you split the model into two activities in no way the model will make the adjustments as it will not know what volume of work is to be performed by each individual activity. If the volume of work is kept within a single activity the volume of work remains 500cm. Please turn on the volume, the music is on the house, expand to full screen for a better view.  

Please take a look at my Fri, 2018-11-02 18:43 post for a static view.

If activity starts on Monday:
Monday =>> Resource 1 will produce 100 cm
Tuesday =>> Resource 1 will produce 100 cm
Wednesday =>> Resource 1 will produce 100 cm
Wednesday =>> Resource 2 will produce 150 cm
Thursday =>> Resource 2 will produce 50 cm in about 3 hours
Activity will take 3 days 3 hours.

If activity starts on Wednesday :
Wednesday =>> Resource 1 will produce 100 cm
Wednesday =>> Resource 2 will produce 150 cm
Thursday =>> Resource 2 will produce 150 cm
Friday =>> Resource 2 will produce 100 cm in 6.67 hours
Activity will take 2 days 6.67 hours.

After all work is done no need for resources to hang around doing nothing, they will be realeased and become available to do work on other activities.

Best Regards,

Rafael

Hi Anoon,

I don't understand what is the problem to be solved.

Please explain suggesting the detailed example.

Breaking up activities does not make sense when different teams work on the same activity.  Splitting the activity is a very poor work around when different shifts work on same activity.

When you split a resource loaded activity because other activities might be competing for the same resouces there is a risk each sub-activity will be scheduled non-contiguous by the resource leveling engine.  If not enough re-distributing the volume of work among the sub-activities and calculating their adjusted durations every time these are delayed as schedule moves will be a nightmare.

Learn to schedule shifts within same activity using your software, no big deal, should be easy.

1) If you are working on a project which starts with only a day shift then so far into the project a night shift is introduced, do you need to reflect this night shift work in the calendar? 

not necessararily it depends if you are tacking and manloading the schedule. A working day is still a day no matter if it is 1 or 4 shifts it how you want to represent it. 

2) What difference does it make to the schedule if you change the calendar apart from changing the activity durations? 

it depends on wht changes you make to the calendar. For example if you add holidays that reduces the available number of working days for that particualr month. Thus reducing the available overall time frame for the project. 

1. you may create a seasonal calendar maybe you can only plant during the fall and spring. Then you assign planting activities to this specific calendar which means that the planting activities can only happen in the spring and fall window.

2. Maybe your job shuts down during the winter. Then you would block out the winter months in the calendar. That means that now work will be shown during the winter months. 

3. Maybe you project closes from Christmas until after the new years. That means no work will be shown during this period. 

bottom line it all effects the calacualtion of total float.