Guild of Project Controls: Compendium | Roles | Assessment | Certifications | Membership

Tips on using this forum..

(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?

(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.

yet another complaing about prod rates !

11 replies [Last post]
Sat, 2006-10-28 12:03
mimoune djouallah
User offline. Last seen 4 years 40 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 388
Groups: Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas, Spider Project Team
Hi all

What is the aim of including all those prod-rates, how we are supposed to use them ? Are they usable without knowing the production rate for each member of the standard crew? Or at least knowing the composition of those crew ?

Is there any internal ( in planning planet) process to check them if they are good enough, or are they given just for indication ?

Please can you guide me? I am fully aware it is a free effort led by volunteers works, and unsurprisingly if is far better then many other commercial counterpart, but many things seems so evident for old skilled planner, or it is a real nightmare for young fresh planner engineer ( it is not about me, I am rather old guy now:(

Cheers
mimoune
Top

Replies

Sat, 2007-01-13 03:01
#1
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 2 years 39 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Hi Richard,

You got it right.

Also the HOW is ok with me.

If ever this downloadable for will be available, you can count on me.

Cheers,

Charlie
Top
Thu, 2007-01-11 04:54
#2
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 2 years 39 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
A word of caution.

Production rate may come from project specific case or from specific country.

It is like buying books where productions rates are different for 1 cu. m. of soil. For example, meand estimating handbook may XX cu. m. per hour, another book may give YY cu. m per hour or your own database may give ZZ cu. m per hour of soil.

These are specific production rate. All have to do is to convert this specific production rate to universal production rate.

So, if you got hold of universal production rates, then, it would be easy to convert this universal production rate to project specific production rate any place you will work: GCC, Middle East, Down Under, EU, America (North and South).

But production rate per se is nothing. It is not the end. It is only the means to arrive at a certain objectives.

So what use is production rate.

Let me count the ways.

Production rate can be use .............

Cheers,

Charlie
Top
Mon, 2007-01-08 12:02
#3
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 2 years 39 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Hello to all,

The fundamentals of production rates is to get the universal norms of production rates.

From this norms, specific projects shall be evaluated.

A factor can be derive. This factor shall encompassed the internal and external influence to project. let say X is the factor.

So, your project production rate will be X (the factor) multiply by the universal norms of production rates.

for example: the universal norm for production rate of manual excavation average soil is 1 cu. m (example only)

When you excavate in KSA during summer, then your factor say y1, then you will consider the nationality, y2, then you will consider the direct supervision, y3 and so on and so on. This is only for illustrative purposes.

The point here is to arrive an analysis of the X factor that you will multiply to the universal norm of production rate.

So there is really nothing wrong with our very own PP production rates as long as we will continue to be smart on how to figure out the project specifi production rates

Cheers,






Top
Sat, 2007-01-06 14:58
#4
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
User offline. Last seen 12 years 48 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2 Jun 2005
Posts: 299
Groups: GPC Malaysia, Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas
Hi all,

question? is it asian prod rate can be comply to european or middle east. The basis here is, the different technology and skill workers construction as we know the european is more advance their technology, if to compare with some of asian country and middle east.
Top
Sat, 2007-01-06 13:09
#5
Forum Guest
User offline. Last seen 2 years 28 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 1
Groups: None
Hi there,

We are working on this issue. We need to get some planners together to work out the best method of storing the data etc. Anyone got any suggestions as how to move this forward?

PP Team
Top
Fri, 2006-11-03 03:47
#6
Chris Oggham
User offline. Last seen 9 years 18 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 605
Groups: None
Hi Tom/Billy,

I’ve sent a PM to PP Admin suggesting they take a look at this thread and suggesting that they might want to ask the members for help in revising the Prod Rates. I suppose what we do now is wait.

Being fair, the guys who keep Planning Planet running do have a lot of work and limited time; hopefully, though, if the work of gathering the information is done by the members, updating the database itself shouldn’t be too intensive.

Chris Oggham
Top
Thu, 2006-11-02 13:20
#7
billy nomates
User offline. Last seen 17 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 3
Groups: None
Chris,

I think that’s EXACTLY what is needed.

The excel sheet I refer to is a fairly simple sheet that covers the basics I use from tender to tender. However, it is a live document, in that each tender also contributes to it through input from specialist subcontractors.

My aim is that in 5 - 10 years I will have a pretty comprehensive database. You are right in that this exercise could be done in a matter of months with contributions here.

I think prior to any rates being submitted, the whole format, presentation & purpose of the rates pages need to be reviewed in detail.


Tom
Top
Thu, 2006-11-02 03:31
#8
Chris Oggham
User offline. Last seen 9 years 18 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 605
Groups: None
Tom,

I understand where you’re coming from, I think. From the information in your posts, it’s pretty obvious that you’ve found some pretty glaring errors or omissions in the PP prod rate data. The only thing I can suggest is that you send any updated or revised data, in your posession, to PP Admin in a private message with a brief explanation of why it should be adopted.

If PP Admin acts on this and requests further assistance from the members, the prod rate data could be revised fairly rapidly.

Just an idea, what do you think?

Chris Oggham
Top
Wed, 2006-11-01 11:51
#9
Tom Howard
User offline. Last seen 8 years 33 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 119
Groups: None
Shahzad,

As I have previously explained, the excuse that this part of the site has not been updated in 5 years "because it is run by volunteers", simply does not hold. Just how busy can you be that you cant find any time in over 5 years ????

You say company rates are "more practical and close to their requirement" or is it just that there isn’t any other source out there ???

In the UK, the "Company based productivity rates" you talk about are most likely the Costain / John Laing file (hand typed!!!) that has been doing the rounds since 1985. This is over 20 years old now !!! (and they probably havent got round to updating it either!!).

Also, what if your company doesnt have any "Company based productivity rates" ???

It seems to me to be a much more worthwhile exercise to sort the rates out, rather than have a (new) voting page on whether Planners "prefer tea or coffee"...
Top
Wed, 2006-11-01 11:28
#10
Shahzad Munawar
User offline. Last seen 8 years 51 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2 Jul 2003
Posts: 551
Groups: None
Yes, I agree with you that there is no change in production rates as same as in last five years. The reason is that mostly our planners use their Company based productivity rates which are more practical and close to their requirement.

Rather than you consult the old productivity rates here it is better to use your Company data base but where you need it you may prorate it because this site is being run by voluntary planners I think who have no time to update this Productivity Data Base.
Top
Tue, 2006-10-31 06:06
#11
Tom Howard
User offline. Last seen 8 years 33 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 119
Groups: None
Totally agree... when I first stumbled across the rates section, I thought I had struck gold. To my knowledge, there is no other database like it, either electronically or in books (Spons aside). However, I have been "using" Planning Planet for well over 5 years now, and within that period the rates have not been developed, updated or revised. In some cases, as well as the confusion as to whether the rate applies to a gang or a single man, they are just downright incorrect. Take metal decking for instance, PP tells me a rate of 70m2/day for large areas or 28m2 per day for small areas. However, speaking to people that DO THIS FOR A LIVING, I am told that an output rate of 25m2 PER HOUR + edge trim is reasonable. I have also been given the following formula (Add m2 of deck + m of trim) / 200 = no. days of work (+ time for nets & studs etc).

The excuse that "Planning Planet" is run by volunteers, does not explain why this important resource & site feature has not been developed in over 5 years. There are a whole host of ways to improve the rate pages, from a user suggestion sheet that actually works (and updates the rates), through to more detailed descriptions and the splitting of rates down into different areas of construction eg railways, shop fitting, building, civils etc, or even by country. Clearly a fast track fitout company working in London is going to have different rates to one building a RC hotel complex in Jamaica.

More info is needed for gang descriptions and how the rate has been calculated. Also, it would be fairly easy to transfer these rates into an excel spreadsheet, we could then download, that would enable us to calculate our own outputs easily (which I have done for myself already).


Top