If FIDIC wanted to comment on the ownership of float, they would have done so during the past 50 years. But FIDIC is Clause 8.3 silent about this.
Subsequently, you will revert to the Engineers determination and the DAB. And that is dependent on the industry and location, and of course the experience of the people working in the field.
What you have described is case specific and is not the FIDIC requirement. Simply because it is not writen in FIDIC clause 8.3.
With kind regards,
Samer
Member for
19 years 10 months
Member for19 years10 months
Submitted by Bryan Russell on Thu, 2010-08-19 13:20
Absolutely correct Mike; however us lot in the colonies, [South Africa], without the benefit of too much local precedent, have to rely on decisions made in other jurisdictions being accepted as persuasive.
I thought the case had been going so long everyone had forgotten the original pleadings!
One of the major problems in forensic examination of contract programmes is that they have almost always been done with a view to look into the future and distribute resources and activities over the contract period.
When variations and delays have taken place, the principles behind the programme may not be valid at all and any revisions of the critical path may be such as to render a nonsense.
The Scottish appellate division recently held in City Inn v Shepherd Construction that "The relevant event must be likely to have or actually delayed the Works; Causation is to be decided by applying common sense rather than "philosophical" principles of causation. If a dominant cause of delay can be identified , other causes will not be considered and where it is not a relevant event, the claim will fail.
Their Lordships all agreed that it is not necessary to have a critical path analysis to determine an EoT. A lack of a critical path is not fatal to a claim for EoT. Where there are concurrent delays, irrespective of when the events started or finished, in the event of no particular event being dominant, a fair and reasonable award of EoT may involve an apportionment exercise.
Thanks for the welcome and your thoughts on the matter, greatly appreciated.
I work for the Main Contractor and I build up float in my projects through the logic and the types of links I use, and in most cases develope quite a bit of float in that manner as is really up to us on how we go about carrying out the works ie. adding more resources to certain activities to reduce durations etc.
I have a scenario on how he (Axel Jeager) would go about determining a claim for EOT: Activity A is not on Critical Path and has 10 days float and then you suffer a delay of 10 days caused by an outside influence. You put in a claim for the 10 days EOT however the determination is you had this float therefore no EOT would be entertained, you get nothing. On the otherhand it has now put this activity on the Critical Path as it now has zero float which now opens up the door for more claims due to time being at large - its abit of a double edged sword!
Member for
17 years 2 monthsRE: Understanding the Principals behind the Program
Dear Jason,
If FIDIC wanted to comment on the ownership of float, they would have done so during the past 50 years. But FIDIC is Clause 8.3 silent about this.
Subsequently, you will revert to the Engineers determination and the DAB. And that is dependent on the industry and location, and of course the experience of the people working in the field.
What you have described is case specific and is not the FIDIC requirement. Simply because it is not writen in FIDIC clause 8.3.
With kind regards,
Samer
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Understanding the Principals behind the Program
Absolutely correct Mike; however us lot in the colonies, [South Africa], without the benefit of too much local precedent, have to rely on decisions made in other jurisdictions being accepted as persuasive.
I thought the case had been going so long everyone had forgotten the original pleadings!
All the best
Bryan Russell
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Understanding the Principals behind the Program
Hi Bryan
That was a Scottish case and has not yet been tested in an English Court.
The current rules on concurrency in England still stems from the Brompron case where the critical path is required.
Another point is that the City Inn v Shepherd was based on a colapsed as built analysis which failed.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Understanding the Principals behind the Program
One of the major problems in forensic examination of contract programmes is that they have almost always been done with a view to look into the future and distribute resources and activities over the contract period.
When variations and delays have taken place, the principles behind the programme may not be valid at all and any revisions of the critical path may be such as to render a nonsense.
The Scottish appellate division recently held in City Inn v Shepherd Construction that "The relevant event must be likely to have or actually delayed the Works; Causation is to be decided by applying common sense rather than "philosophical" principles of causation. If a dominant cause of delay can be identified , other causes will not be considered and where it is not a relevant event, the claim will fail.
Their Lordships all agreed that it is not necessary to have a critical path analysis to determine an EoT. A lack of a critical path is not fatal to a claim for EoT. Where there are concurrent delays, irrespective of when the events started or finished, in the event of no particular event being dominant, a fair and reasonable award of EoT may involve an apportionment exercise.
Food for thought!!
Best Regards
Bryan Russell
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Understanding the Principals behind the Program
Hi Jason
You are correct that in your scenario there would not be an entitlement to an extension of time.
But a notice should be issued to the effect that the event has now changed the critical path.
This would be done by using the Impacted As Planned Method and the new programme issued to the Client.
If there had been a Contractor’s Time Risk Buffer of say 5 days at the end of the task sequence then there is a chance that an EoT would be valid.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
15 years 2 monthsRE: Understanding the Principals behind the Program
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the welcome and your thoughts on the matter, greatly appreciated.
I work for the Main Contractor and I build up float in my projects through the logic and the types of links I use, and in most cases develope quite a bit of float in that manner as is really up to us on how we go about carrying out the works ie. adding more resources to certain activities to reduce durations etc.
I have a scenario on how he (Axel Jeager) would go about determining a claim for EOT: Activity A is not on Critical Path and has 10 days float and then you suffer a delay of 10 days caused by an outside influence. You put in a claim for the 10 days EOT however the determination is you had this float therefore no EOT would be entertained, you get nothing. On the otherhand it has now put this activity on the Critical Path as it now has zero float which now opens up the door for more claims due to time being at large - its abit of a double edged sword!
Kind Regards,
Jason Lightley
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Understanding the Principals behind the Program
Hi Jason
Welcome to planning planet.
The current thinking is that float belongs to the project on a first come first served basis.
I would not advocate artificially adjusting the task durations to use up float.
Alap programming just puts the float at the begining of the task rather than the end.
It is good planning practice to put in a Contractors time risk buffer task at the end of the project or at key stages.
This will be retained for your own risk and the client cannot touch it.
Best regards
Mike Testro