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Extension of time

29 replies [Last post]
Sayed Ibrahim
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Dear all
pls ihave 1 important question
when we need to make programme for E.O.T WE use Updated programme or approved baseline programme.

Elsayed Ibrahim
Senior Planning Engineer

Replies

Gary Whitehead
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John,

 

Welcome to planning planet.

The last post in this conversation was 4 1/2 years ago. Please don't reply to long-dead threads such as this.

 

Thanks,

 

G

Riyaz John
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Guys,

Nice to join in this conversation.

To analyze the time impact due to client delays, baseline schedule has to be used. Coz, if you use updated schedule, there will be a delay due to contractor & you cannot exactly calculate the delay due to client only, which will be a legitimate EOT claim which client cannot reject.

ashraf alawady
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This Task is a team work of professional & experts inluding contacts manager , quantity surveyor,planning engineer and documents controler.
Jaikishan Bhagcha...
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The best person to decide EoT is Project Manager and Planning Manager who has monitored the Job closely. If everyday log report or detailed daily progress report, material receipt report, and agreed execution plan Rev0 is available, it is very easy to decide, whose fault is and decide and approve the EoT, if not charge off the penaulty as agreed and close the issue.
ashraf alawady
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All the proposals should be in compliance with the condition of contract.

So every case has to be studied separely.

However, we have been agreed on the basices and the fundamintal issues.
Larry Bjorn
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Ashraf,
On behalf of the 10 days concurrent delay option, I think:
· 10 days EOT to be given to Contractor.
· Associated preliminary costs to be allocated between contractor & employer.

I think that is fair, what do you think?
ashraf alawady
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Dear,Larry

If you are proposing share the liability for the preliminaryis costs in the 1st case due to 90 days concurrent delays so, what is the possibility to share the liability and the costs for 10days concurrent delays in the 2nd case where previously i was recommended to penalize the contractor fo 80days only which could be changed to 85 days if the sharing prenciple is a must.
Larry Bjorn
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Thank you ashraf, it’s a pleasure being here.

What you suggest might be fair in regards to additional ‘raw’ construction costs that would incur due to the –90 days. However, a fair chunk of the additional cost will be in regards to preliminaries such as Plant, Site Facilities, Site Management, Security, etc. With both being in delay, and particularly considering that the employer’s delay is greater, the employer ought to have a shared liability for additional preliminary costs.

Regards,
Larry
ashraf alawady
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WElcome,Larry
I have suggest 100 days EOT as also you have agreed with me because the contractor in all the cases and regardless his own delays can not complete the works bfore those 100 days.
Also, I have suggest to pay the assuciated cost for 10 days only due to the recoded 90 days contractor’s own delays which clarifing also that the contractor in all the cases can not complete the original contract scope of works before 90 days.
By this way of assisement and analysis ,I bleive that we tried our best to give every parties his right professionally and fairly.

THANKS
Larry Bjorn
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Ashraf,

The -100days deal you suggest seem to be too much in favour of the employer and unfair to the contractor. I do agree on the E.O.T but not on the allocation of cost. Keeping it simple, the costs in regards to the –90 days should be quantified and allocated appropriately.

Regards,
Larry
ashraf alawady
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Thanks, Martin

it is my pleasure to communicate with sincere person like you and always you and the others are welcome in egypt.
REGARDS
Harold Martin
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Thanks Ashraf I gained some ideas with you...by the way how is Alexandria????I worked before in San Stefano.
ashraf alawady
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DEAR, Shareef
We are doing our works professionally, fairly and honestly regadless the ability of the others to be aware or not.
Thnks
Shareef Abdul Azeez
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Hi

Hate to say this but Harold but I stand with Ashraf...

The most reasonable way to claim for a EOT is using the updated programme which shows the origin of the delay. Coz like what uve said the impact of a delay caused by the contractor remains hidden if you impact on the baseline programme.

Altough u can show it writing that "yes, there is a delay on the contractors side too". but the most reasonable way is to impact on the updated programme .

U can escape with the baseline impact only if your consultant and client are unaware of this.
Harold Martin
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Thank you so much Mr. Ashraf but let me cite you an example and I need your opinion on this. If the contractor had been delayed for 3months (remember this is a contractor’s delay) and there is a delay made also by the employer after a few months. Would it be fair to used the updated programme and insert this particular delay made by the employer to claim for EOT.

You see in this case, the delay incurred by the contractor had been covered by the delay of the employer.

ashraf alawady
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Martin ,I have answered your question in my previous post.
Hoever, to study the time impact for any variations or addetional works , we are using the latest approved base-line programme.
And to study the time impact for any delay events , we are using the latest approved up dated one.
REGARDS
Harold Martin
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It’s not the question of updating or how many activities a clause 14 programme have. The question is which one is the best tool to use for claiming EOT? Is it the baseline or the updated one.

ashraf alawady
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Karim , I’m totally agreed with your comments and in additon to that there is clause in the conditions of contract differeniate btween a project have 100 activities and another which have 10,000 activities.
ashraf alawady
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By using the latest approved updated programme, the contractor was in delays for 90 days(i.e there are some specifif activities have a nigative total float (-90)days and it was the own contractor delays as you said and by applaying the delay events happend by the client we wl get some other activities have a nigative total float as follow
* for example (-10)days in this case the contractor will be pinalized for 80 days delays only.
*another case (-100)days in this case te contractor will be entitled for 100 days EOT with the associated costs for 10 days only since he has lost the cost of the other 80 days due to his own previouse delays.
I beleive it is fair enough.

Karim Mounir
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Hi,

I think if you are claiming then u should use the latest revision of the approved schedule and apply the latest update on it.

No matter your schedule is 1,000 or 10,000 activities, u should submit the update of your schedule to the engineer in weekly & monthly basis in your regular reports, so it doesn’t matter how many activities in it, the engineer should at least revise this update in his own way.

The idea in making an update is to gather the updated information correctly from different sources and to coordinate between different trades correctly.
ashraf alawady
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If there are profisional planner form the engineer’side and from the client side ,NO channce for the contractor to play in the apprpved prorammes and contractor can not cheat some progress percentage for some links that originally is in the Clause 14 programme to make your EOT longer.
Contractor is not allowed to change any thing(relations;quantities,durations,productivities.........etc)
with owt informing the engineer/client officially and getting his written approval.
% completed for any activities can easly be defined on the site from time to time and it should be recorded in all cases regardless expacted EOT or not.
Regards

Harold Martin
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True, we can used the updated baseline schedule and insert the delays and get the impact. But the problem will lie on your progress percentage of your update, how accurate it is? If you are on the Contractor side you can do this and cheat some progress percentage or some links that originally is in the Clause 14 programme to make your EOT longer.

While using the clause 14 programme or revised one if interim EOT had been approved. You can easily insert the delays and maintain the logic links the same as the baseline, without worrying an accurate percentage to each activity.

In updating a programme you in your experienced haven’t you in one time bastardizing your progress or changing the duration as you envisage an activity to finish on that date??
ashraf alawady
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Hi,Martin
*please be infomed that the reasons for EOT could be either delays from the enginner/employer or variations and additional works.
*What do you mean by inserting the delays(engineer/client delays and/or the contractor’s own delays!) in the clause 14 programme taking into cosideration that always we are using the latest revision of the approved programme .
I beileve that we have to differenicate between to things
1-variation due to addetional works.
2- delay events.
To study the impact of variations we have to use latest revision of the approved base-line programme.
To study the impact of any delay events we have to use latest revision of the approved updated programme using the actual starting and finishing dates and the % completed for each activities.
GOOD LUCK
Harold Martin
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If you have 10000 activities in your clause 14 programme or it might be more. Do you think all the inputs you have received from qs, site engineers or by you they are all correct?? For the links which might consists of more than 10000 because one activity might have 2 or 3 relationships. Do you think the planner for the engineer’s side can check it all...
ashraf alawady
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Dear,Martin
We have in our organization such professional planners and QS.
if a planner can creat aproramme with 10000 activities so, it easy for another professional planner to check it .
REgards
Harold Martin
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I think it is easier to just insert the delays in the clause 14 programme and see the impact. What do you think guys?
Dana Qandah
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This depends on the method of schedule delay analysis u use, if u use the as-planned versus as-built comparison method, u need the base-line schedule and the updated one , but if u use the impacted as-planned method , u need the baseline and u will have to reflect the delays to get the impacted.
Aurelio Eugenio D...
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Gents,

I use the Latest Update of the Approved Baseline Programme prior (data date) to the delay.

Good luck too.

Leo
Ronald Winter
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To perform a Time Impact Analysis, you should use the most receint schedule update with a status date just prior to the delay. Good luck!