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Primavera Contractor vs. Suretrak

18 replies [Last post]
Wed, 2006-08-23 09:17
Chad Calhoun
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I’m a new member, so this topic may have been addressed previously. I have extensive experience with the SureTrak software, but in my new job, am trying to recommend between Suretrak or going with Primavera Contractor (which I am not at all familiar with). The pricing is about the same for the basic versions. We are a land developer/construction manager, looking to manage different projects (not complex) and possibly utilizing some cost control functions. Primavera has provide a side by side comparison in list format, but was curious about "real world" applications and/or limitations for each program.

Any help would be appreciated -
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Sun, 2006-09-03 06:36
#1
Arthur Godbeer
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With regard to P3 support I reported published policy. So facts, not "urban legend". But that announcement says that there are no plans at present to cerify P3 under any new operating system. There is a difference between a program seemingly running in a particular environment, and that environment being certified. If it is not certified, there will be no support if problems arise. Your call. In any event, Primavera is encouraging P3 users to migrate ASAP, when convenient. And do you really want to go more than another four years with no added functionality that takes advantage of new ideas and technology? Again, your call.
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Sat, 2006-09-02 10:45
#2
Se de Leon
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Hi Arthur,

I think it’s been more or less 2 years ago when this same topic was discussed. The alarmists during that time were telling that P3 3.1 won’t be able to run on the new OS that’s why it is very important to migrate immediately. And mind you, they were 100% sure of what they were claiming as if they were like pre 2000 Y2K gurus.

Now it seems the plot of story has some changes i.e. P3 3.1 wil run in Vista & support will be upto 2010 not 2007 or 2008 as claimed before.

I guess this Urban Legend will go a long way.

Cheers,

Se
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Sat, 2006-09-02 06:52
#3
Arthur Godbeer
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One more clarification, seeing as we keep adding old and new acronyms. :-)

"PM" (as it relates to the Primavera software) has (in my own experience) only ever referred to the PROGRAM that is now called "Project Management". It is (in a program sense) the P3 replacement, but the replacement (including for P3 users who are migrating) is really the Planner/Scheduler role. This includes more software than just PM, even if that turns out to be the only program that is used. Planner/Scheduler is in turn part of the chosen solution. And for the Primavera Engineering and Construction solution (for example) Planner/Scheduler is one of about a dozen possible roles that can be supplied with appropriate software to address their requirements.
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Sat, 2006-09-02 06:40
#4
Arthur Godbeer
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1. There is no such thing as "P5", that is an acronym that has (understandably) been coined by users, not Primavera. Primavera launched Version 5.0 as "Primavera 5" and that’s how the acronym originated. Which is IMO unfortunate, because that sounds as if it’s just an update to P3 (which is a single program), whereas it decribes all of the possible software. So saying "P5 is at Version 5.0" is meaningless. The software will next be at Version 6.0, and perhaps some people will then be calling it "P6"! And that will be equally meaningless and misleading, unless Primavera decides to brand that version as such.

2. I too had heard that Vista (client not server) would support 16-bit, and that could mean that P3 might run under it. But for support, that is irrelevant unless Primavera says that it will be supported. And there is no current commitment to do so. The commitment to 2010 relates to XP and some of the earlier OS’s. In any event, there are more important reasons why P3 could be "retired" totally by 2010. There has (intentionally) been very little functionality added since 1999 when 3.0 was released, 3.1 was in those terms a minor upgrade. And unless something totally unexpected happens, there will be no further P3 development other than service packs so that it can continue operating under current OS’s. The R&D has gone in a new direction. And that direction is no longer a single Windows-based program, but a much broader functionality that potentially addresses more roles.
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Sat, 2006-09-02 04:40
#5
Se de Leon
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Hi Ronald,

Here we go again on this issue.

My question is, if P3 3.1 will run in Vista which apparently has misled a lot of people in the past in believing that it won’t, why retire it in 2010? Will there be a new OS by that time? Is this another urban legend?

Cheers,

Se
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Fri, 2006-09-01 11:08
#6
Mario Sanvitale
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Apologies if my post was confusing - Microsoft have already stated that software that runs under XP will be supported under Vista, so P5 (aka P3e, etc) will be supported.

I was answering two posts at the same time with the P3 observation, which related to the support offered by Vista (the client app) for 16 bit applications. The question Arthur raises relating to whether Primavera will support P3 on Vista regardless of whether the application can be run is interesting though.
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Fri, 2006-09-01 10:05
#7
Ronald Winter
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You are ‘mixing apples and oranges’ here. P3 is the ‘old’ 16-bit software that people once though Vista would retire it from use. This turned out not to be true. ‘P5’ is one of the many terms used for the new Primavera enterprise software (once called P3 Enterprise, P3e, P3e/c) and still called PM and just Primavera. P3 is at version 3.1 and will be left so until it is retired (somewhere around 2010.) P5 is at Version 5.0 and will most likely be upgraded a version a year (mostly just to keep everyone paying their renewal fees.) Lastly, Microsoft would be happy to see Primavera go by the wayside; they sell MS Project which would pick-up a majority of the profits were this to happen.
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Fri, 2006-09-01 09:43
#8
Mario Sanvitale
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Whether Primavera 5, 6, 7 or whatever version is current works on both Vista and XP is a Microsoft issue. If MS elects to produce an OS that makes all software for their previous OS redundant I don’t think they will sell much of it!

I understand that the client Vista system (ie the desktop version) can still support 16 bit applications anyway, so desktop P3 installations should be OK.

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Fri, 2006-09-01 03:24
#9
Trevor van Aurich
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I assume that Version 5.0 will have updates to cater for the new Windows Operating Systems (which are currently being beta tested). I imagine that Primavera would be beta testing Vista/Longhorne currently.

Any ideas on whether the new MS OS would force Primavera to provide enhancements.

Would the new OS version of Primavera be compatible with XP ?
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Fri, 2006-09-01 03:07
#10
Arthur Godbeer
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OK, seems as if I made an incorrect assumption. Primavera has certainly extended their support commitment for P3 until at least the end of 2010, but there are no plans to support it under newer MS operating systems. So that rules out Vista/Longhorn, it would have to run under XP or earlier versions. And of course there are also no plans to add any more functionality, but we’ve known that for years.
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Tue, 2006-08-29 05:39
#11
Arthur Godbeer
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One more thing. It was my understanding that P3 now being supported until at least the end of 2010 meant that this would include under Longhorn (despite the documentation that Longhorn will not support 16-bit) and not only XP. I’ll try and get some clarity on that.
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Tue, 2006-08-29 03:03
#12
Arthur Godbeer
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By "between the two databases" I mean between the database being accessed by the Project Management program (and other 5.0 tools) and Contractor’s. Contractor is not permitted to access the multi-project database directly.
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Tue, 2006-08-29 02:59
#13
Arthur Godbeer
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Philip, I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you’re asking. I’ve re-read my post, and as far as I can see almost everything I said was factual. The only statement that could possibly be debated is when I said that Contractor is more compatible to 5.0 than SureTrak. The substantiation of that would require providing detail of how data is transferred between the two databases, and which database fields are common to both. In summary, Contractor and the rest of 5.0 share the same d/b design, affected only by the limited Contractor functionality. Whereas P3/SureTrak is a completely different schema. Give me a call if you’d like more info "offline".
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Mon, 2006-08-28 15:40
#14
Philip Jonker
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Hi Arthur,

Would like you to prove you own hypothesis, and the rest.

Philip
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Mon, 2006-08-28 05:27
#15
Arthur Godbeer
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SureTrak is 32-bit, P3 is 16-bit. But in any event it now appears that Longhorn (the long-awaited successor to XP) will support 16-bit, and Primavera has in turn recently announced that P3 will be supported "at least through the end of year 2010".

However, there is an increasing acceleration of movement towards Primavera 5.0 from P3. Contractor should not be compared with SureTrak, the latter could be regarded as being more powerful in terms of funtionality. And SureTrak is multi-project, albeit across only two levels compared with the effectively unlimited levels of Project Management (the primary program in Primavera 5.0). But as a "scaled-down" version of Project Management, Contractor is by far the most compatible with Primavera 5.0, its integration is total. So your choice might be strongly dependent on whether such integration is a current or future requirement.

You Primavera rep should be able to help you further.

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Thu, 2006-08-24 16:47
#16
Philip Jonker
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Hi Chad,

My personal opinion, specificaly in your case, P3 is still the obvious tool to use, with suretrak being the lighter version. The only problem is that the computing industry is moving faster than we need to, i.e. they are moving from 16 bit technology to 32 bit technology, and we have to follow. This means that P3 and Suretrak will have no backup from 2007,but if you have no bugs in your software, you can continue using it, just don’t upgrade the computor you are using to the next windows upgrade, and the software will still perform as it has done in the past.
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Thu, 2006-08-24 12:01
#17
John Lawson
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Hi,

Rather than just looking at Contractor, which has limited number of activites, would it be worth considering going for full version of the system, i.e.Primavera Version 5.0.

Only proble would be getting used to the system, but you will have the exact same problems with Contractor.(as they are the same product - Contractor having limitations on numbers of activities)

As the product comes with a "good" set of manuals and with the help of a Paul Harris manual (www.eh.com.au) - nothing is impossible.

Regards

John
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Wed, 2006-08-23 21:22
#18
Ronald Winter
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I don’t know your background, but most constractors have a lot of problems with the 750 activity limit of "basic" Contractor. The real issue is, "What are the other people in your immediate industry using?" Right now, the answer is SureTrack/P3. The answer will eventually change to Contractor/P5 but the question is, "When?" The costs are the same but the experianced personnel is familiar with SureTrack/P3.

Personally, I wouldn’t switch to Contractor/P5 until they allow you to print out calendars and workday numbers (but then again, I am into the Forensic side of the bussiness and trust no one.) Good luck!
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