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Isometric Production Reporting

10 replies [Last post]
Fri, 2004-07-09 08:41
David Watters
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Dear All

We are working on an offshore EPC project. Part of our reporting element is production of Isometrics and Pipe Support drawings Approved for Construction.

The client planner says this is normal. Our PMs disagree, and try to resist it all the way.

Who is right on if it is a standard thing to expect, the client or the contractor PM?

Before anybody posts a reply, I know this just academic. If the client asks for it, they get it. Esepcially with something so simple to produce.

But the uproar this has caused borders on biblical. I’m talking stand up shouting matches over tables etc!! Good stuff to watch !


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Mon, 2004-07-12 14:03
#1
David Watters
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Thanks Stuart - That IS good food for thought. I’ll be having a meeting with our Project Services Manager tomorrow.

Sorry Forum Guest - I was only pulling your leg. I am quite sure the client would beat you up the ladder to check your report !!
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Mon, 2004-07-12 09:22
#2
Forum Guest
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Smoke and Mirror vision ?. Certainly not, If the Client queries the status I would merely invite him up to the 30m high pipebridge on a cold and windy (preferably rainy) day, where he is quite welcome to come up with his own progress guesstimate.
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Mon, 2004-07-12 07:23
#3
Stuart Ness
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Hi David
Sorry if my earlier comments scared the hell out of you (there goes my inter-personal skills down the toilet!! ;-))
I have had (successful) experince in presenting a claim for the additional cost of reporting engineering progress of AFC drawings. It was in the USA, so (of course!) it got very contractual!
I would say that Bernard is correct in that it is normal for AFC progress to be tracked in large projects; this is normally part of the usual monthly reporting process.
HOWEVER, to return to my earlier post, it all depends on the Contract. If your Contract has a "completeness" clause, then you may well be stuck with having to provide this information at your own cost as the provision to provide the info will be inferred from your reporting obligations.
If your Contract does not have a "completeness" clause, however, then the gate to claim heaven may well be open! ;-)
Hope this doesn’t scare you again ;-)
Cheers,
Stuart

www.rosmartin.com
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Mon, 2004-07-12 07:06
#4
David Watters
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No - I must admit I am with you. The request to my eyes seems very reasonable. As you said, how else can we claim the progress if not by direct measure. Interesting to note that you reported welds by inches. Was there room for smoke and mirrors on whether or not US or UK inches !?!?!

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Mon, 2004-07-12 05:12
#5
Forum Guest
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I dont hink that your client is being unreasonable in making the request. How else can you justify your declared progress ?.

For me estimating the number of iso drawings completed is much the same as how much concrete has been poured, steel erected etc. The difference I guess is that concrete & steel are a little more visible. Wait until you come to pipe erection, what are you going to use as your progress measure then ?. I had a client once who insisted on inches of pipe weld. Very strange.
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Sat, 2004-07-10 12:55
#6
David Watters
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it IS a large job. 2.3 million design manhours and largest offshore installtion in UK offshore for the past 15 years - (Buzzard FYI) hence the need not to annoy client. Interested to know what other projects you have seen this on.

Your right about the designers going ape. The more we try to figure out the true measure, the more complicated they make the issues
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Fri, 2004-07-09 10:34
#7
Bernard Ertl
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I have seen owners tracking progress of AFC isos for very large engineering projects, but not for small ones.

FWIW, I think that designers do not work too well under pressure. The likelyhood for mistakes slipping into the AFC isos is greater when everyone is under pressure.

Bernard Ertl
InterPlan Systems - eTaskMaker Project Planning Software
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Fri, 2004-07-09 09:39
#8
David Watters
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God - sorry

Just read my original post and realised it missed a vital perice of info !!!

What I am actually talking about is a progress report of AFC Isos and Pipe Supports !!!

NOT the actual Isos Supports themselves.

Hope that clarifies !!!
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Fri, 2004-07-09 09:38
#9
David Watters
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Your contractual method would scare the hell out of me! However, our client is good to us on other areas, so I do not think we shall call in the laywers just yet.

BUT it is a valid point though. I do not think that the contract specifies the level of progress reproting very well, but I will go and grab my copy off the shelve and redevour it over the weekend just to follow up on your suggestion. Thanks for the hint!!

BUT, back to basics - Has anyone out there run this type of report in aggressionand is it really so common in Oil and Gas as the client suggests?
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Fri, 2004-07-09 09:11
#10
Stuart Ness
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David,
I don’t think that it is a case of what is "normal" or "standard"; it really is a case of what does the Contract say?
The workscope section of the Contract should set out whether or not the Contractor has the obligation to produce the Isometrics and Pipe Support drawings in question. If it does not specifically state this, then it is not part of the Contractor’s obligations (and someone has made a cock-up in drafting the Contract!).
However, you need to check to see if the general section of the workscope requires the Contractor to carry out work that is related to/or necessary for "completeness of the Works." If the Contract does have this expression, then it looks like the Contractor has to comply at his own cost. If not, it sounds to me that you have a claim.
In any event, get the Client to commit his request formally in writing - that might shut him up! ;-)
Cheers,
Stuart
www.rosmartin.com
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