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PP accreditation or CIOB / PMI/etc

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Dave Crosby
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(2) Do we need a professional body such as APM or PMI to do this, or should, or could we, organise and accredit ourselves?

It has been pointed out that CIOB have already formed a working group on this. Others see Planning Planet as the best source of accreditation.

Replies

Mike Testro
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Hi Toby

That looks very interesting.

I have registered and would be happy to assist in any way.

I have some articles to submit and one useful link.

Best regards

Mike Testro

Toby Hunt
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Dear All Its worth checking out the website at www.ptmworld.org. This is meant to assist in taking the CIOB Guide to the next step.   The idea is that this will be a repository of useful and relevant information and reference material that candidates and interested parties can refer to, as well as providing background information on the guide and associated activities, seminars and events. Regards Toby
Toby Hunt
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To keep you in the picture, the latest news I have is that the Guide to Good Practice in the Management of Time in Complex Projectsshould be in the shops around 10 December 2010 at £49.99 in the UK and US$72.99 in the US and Hong Kong, in OZ - AUS$ 89.95, etc (go to “Change location” to see a whole host of other countries).
http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-144433493X.html
Regards
Toby

Mike Testro
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Hi Gary

I have heard that the Lapp Dancing is popular or maybe a bit further north for the pole dancing.

Best regards

Mike Testro
Gary Whitehead
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I hear there’s a cracking folk museum in Oslo...
Mike Testro
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Hi Gary

"Jolly" & "Norway" in the same sentence!

An oxymoron surely.

Best regards

Mike Testro
Gary Whitehead
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Gotcha. So some time after 2010, there would be a training & certification programme established.
Probably best for me to go for an existing accreditation scheme at least for the interim year or two, then.

Now all I gotta do is persuade my manager a jolly to Norway is in the firm’s best interests...
Toby Hunt
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Gary
To expand on Mike’s thread; The main purpose of the working group is to establish standards of industry best practice for the management of time which will be published as a Code of Practice. It will then address training, education and certification needs for those engaged in project planning and scheduling.
Regards
Toby
Mike Testro
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Hi Gary

As far as I know the CIOB is not planning to offer a seperate accreditation for construction planning.

They are in the process of putting together a Best Practice Guide for Consruction Time Management - due for publication early 2010 - I am part of the contributing group.

I know very little about AACE except that it is Amrican and I know nothing about PSP.

I am a member of the PEO which requires submission of a thesis before admission and it is an acknowledged accreditation.

As far as PP is concerned everyone involved is dabbling about with no way forward as to the best solution - I have pretty well given up on the idea.

Best regards

Mike Testro
Gary Whitehead
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To go slightly off-topic, I have just started looking into accreditation, and was going to go down the AACE’s PSP route.
What would the proposed (CIOB or other) new accreditation system offer over and above the PSP? Is the AACE/PSP not well regarded by employers?
The only drawback I’ve found with PSP is that it seems I’ll have to travel to Norway to sit the exam!

Thanks in advance for your insightful comments.
Gary Whitehead
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Ref the original subject, it would seem an accreditation from an existing and well-respected organisation such as CIOB is clearly the easiest, quickest, and most robust method of getting a planning-specific qualification.

So long as PEO / PP / other respected people are willing and welcome to contribute to the CIOB work, I see no reason to assume that the qualification would be construction-biased.

For PP to set up a brand new institution for the sole purpose of donig precisely what the CIOB are going to do anyway seems very much like a duplication, and indeed a dilution, of effort experience and talent.
Ernesto Montales
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Thank very much you Ron. I’ll keep you guys updated on the results.

Cheers,

Ernesto
Ron Baird
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Hi Ernesto,
As you are a member of PMP and PMI you may be able to join without endorsments.
The web site for APM is:-
www.apm.org.uk
If you contact them I am sure they will point you in the right direction. Good luck and let us know how you get on.
Best regards,
Ron
Ernesto Montales
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Hello Ron

I think it is a brilliant idea, I myself is a member of PMI and PMP as well. Since coming to UK few year ago, I was planning to join the APM, apparently I do not know anyone to endorse me. Could you point me to the right direction.

Thanks

Ernesto
Ron Baird
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Hi All,
I have just completed a Project Management course for APM. (Introductory Certificate).
The course tutor is one of the authors of the PMBOK Book of Knowledge.
He informed us that APM is becoming Chartered this year after a 10 year wait.
He also said they were looking at creating a section for Planners, Schedulers et al.
This could be the path to becoming Chartered without having to wait a long time.
What do you all think?.
Best regards,
Ron
Charleston-Joseph...
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Basically,

there is not need for PP to get accredited in CIOB or PMI, etc.

PP is a unique virtual world with members accredited already in pretigious organization like AACEI, PEO, PMI, SCL, etc, etc.

Their affiliations help PP make robust and meaningful virtual world becuase they enligthen us on what their organization ideas regarding planning, scheduling, forensic planning, planning carreers opportunities, etc., etc.

In this way, it offers us a wide choice, a meaningful choice of freedom to chart what ideas to pursue, what ideas give meaning to our day to day activities and

at the end of the day, when the time comes for us to share to the next generation of planning and scheduling professionals and forensic delay anlayst professional,

Then, PP is the only planet that makes it possible

Why are we doing this???? It is human instinct to survive.

So be it.

Cheers,
Happy Planning and Scheduling

Toby Hunt
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Mike

As you may already know, the CIOB does not just operate within "Building", and indeed has said that it is happy to involve other orgainsations / institutes / professional bodies with the drive to get a uniform standard in place. The CIOB recognises that it may not be the best "final" awarding body for any accreditation, but is at least willing to get the ball rolling in some meaningful way, rather than just talking about it.

Hence why I can’t understand why PP / PEO and other shouldn’t add their weight behind the CIOB efforts, and then when complete the debate about awarding bodies etc can be had.

Regards

Toby
Mike Testro
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Hi Toby

Fine for all Builders but what about the IT & Petro chem planners etc - will they feel at home in the CIOB?

Maybe we can sound it out tomorrow evening.

It will take time to acheive recognition - we will need a good PR operator to get the word out in the worldwide construction press.

As I have said before - all these organisations started from nowhere so why not the PP.

Best regards

Mike Testro
Toby Hunt
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Mike

I think the point is that PP can "say" they are a professional body, but that is not really enough. Planners / schedulers need to have recognition within the construction industry as a whole, and I fear that a PP accreditation will not achieve this.

In my opinion using the CIOB, a recognised chartered body is a much better (and faster) way of achieving wider recognition.

Regards

Toby
Mike Testro
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Hi Barry

Take a look at the thread Accreditation by Experience where I have set down a full prospectus - including setting up an accreditation committee.

There is of course the AACE route as well as the PEO and anyone is free to take that route.

Best regards

Mike Testro
Barry Fullarton
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Hi

I agree, but who will be the committe that sets up how assessment will be done etc.

and isnt there already creditation in PSP doen by AACE?

REGARDS
Mike Testro
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Hi Ron

You wrote:

We cannot become a Profesional Body by just saying we are one.

Why not? Thats what all the others did. You have to start somewhere so why not with PP as a stand alone planning accreditation system.

Best regards

Mike Testro
Ron Baird
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To become recognised we have to follow a well worn path that has stood the test of time.
We become a seperate Licensed Member or Professional Affiliate of the Engineering Council or we join an already Member Organisation.
Some of the Professional Affiliates are listed on www.engc.org.uk
It is worth a look because I believe our chosen profession is as good as most that are listed on their web site. We cannot become a Profesional Body by just saying we are one.
We have to prove it to other such bodies that we have the skill and integrity to become an active and worthy Member that will enhance the Organisations we wish to join.
Criteria that we have to meet includes Knowledge, Skills,Professional Developement and Respect to Fellow Members plus many others.
If at the end of this debate we only get a set of guidelines for an organisation then that in itself would be a step forward.
Regards,
Ron


John Reid
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Hi Toby
Yes I watched the webinar on wednesday and thought it was very useful especially for reinforcing the importance of planning and monitoring with site teams.

Keith is planning on raising the profile of planning while he is in office which is great.
Toby Hunt
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For those of you interested in the CIOBs efforts, there is a webinar that has been put on the CIOB website of a lecture Keith Pickavance gave in Singapore last year. Aparently some academics have picked up on it and intend to show it to their students. The web address is

http://www.multichanneltv.com/ciob/cio004/
Barry Fullarton
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Hi Guys

did any of you part take in these sessions

regards



Scheduling Traps, Pitfalls and Swindles: The Dark Side of Scheduling!
Wed., December 3, 2008 - 1:00-2:30PM EST

Session 3 of the 4-part Construction Scheduling Best Practices 2008 Webinar Series
(http://www.magnetmail.net/events/event_signup.cfm?uid=WPL_&eid=1535&mid=...)

----------------------------------------------------
Series Overview

** Session 1: Project Scheduling in the 21st Century (available on CD only)
** Session 2: CPM Scheduling Best Practices (available on CD only)
** Session 3: Dec. 3 (1:00-2:30PM EST) - Scheduling Traps, Pitfalls and Swindles: The Dark Side of Scheduling
** Session 4: Dec. 10 (1:00-2:30PM EST) - Challenges and Lessons-Learned with Primavera’s Project Management Software
----------------------------------------------------
Barry Fullarton
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Hi Guys

Whilst I might not have got the correct jist of this thread , i get the read that we are Planners are looking for ACCREDITATION?

or some form of , " he is a qualified planner" am i correct in my assessmnt?

If so the AACE has the Accreditation of the Project Planning Professional , which has courses and the written exam

this might help

regards
William Burrows
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Andrew,

I take your point, however I believe it rests with the origin of the material; ie was it obtained legally, was it copied from another format etc.

Copyright, in most cases, does not prohibit one from acts such as modifying, defacing, or destroying his or her own legitimately obtained copy of a copyrighted work, so long as duplication is not involved.

It’s an interesting debate, also you may be aware of booksellars on the web who offer previously owned material for resale.
After all I’m merely proposing a free lending library with no money exchanging hands.

Regard,
William.
Andrew Flowerdew
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William,

Would be nice to do but copyright laws may have something to say about it.
Andrew Flowerdew
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Dave,

The usual definition of a professional body is one that has been awarded some form of recognition, usually from the state, eg in UK, it normally has been awarded a "Royal Charter". Eg Institute of Civil Engineers, similar for Mechanical, Chemical Engineers, Architects, Builders, etc, etc. That’s what defines the "professions" and distinguishes the difference between someone calling themselves for example a civil engineer and a sanitary engineer!!!

No doubt this differs around the world but it is the qualifications given out by the above type bodies that are recognised around the world by other similar bodies and most importantly, by employers.

An organisation may be a body of professionals who got together, but it’s no more than that.

That’s not to say that other bodies can not, or should not, do similar to a recognised professional body, but just because a collection of professionals in some organisation say you can put ??? letters after your name after you’ve done this and that, one has to wonder how meaningful they will be to a future employer. Without some form of formal recognition of the body handing out the qualification, the task of getting employers to recognise the qualification, (and we’re contemplating globally), is going to be long and difficult.
William Burrows
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Having enjoyed reading the questions and comments put forward by members of PP regarding accreditation, it occurred to me that there is an obvious thirst for information and knowledge, especially by the younger members.

Being new to this forum my following suggestions may have already been addressed so please forgive if they seem repetitious.

Over the years I have read many books on the subject of planning in most of the disciplines covered in this forum.

If we don’t already have a library exchange mechanism where books, CD/DVD can be circulated without the need to lay out hard earned cash, why not set one up?
Regards
William


Dave Crosby
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"Dave, Without decrying any organisation, what’s the normally understood definition of a "professional" body? "

1. Note that the question I posed was simply re-quoting the original thread in this forum.

2. Note also that if PP began accrediting planners then PP might be described as a professional body.

3. I would think a "professional body" would be one that has members from a certain profession with recognised qualifications who agree to adhere to certain standards such as ethical standards. However I guess the definition could be broader than that.

4. I am not sure why you asked this question. I think in the original context of this thread "professional body" just meant an existing, widely recognised professional association such as PMI, CIOB etc.
Ernesto Montales
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Professional organisation provide the CPD (Continuing Professional Development). With rapid advancement and developement that is happening in the world today, I think professional bodies is the vehicle for us to keep up with the changes to keep ourselves updated with the trends and remain competetive.

Nestor Principe
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I have been working with the contractors all the time. I don’t need to be accredited by any professional body. All I need is to prove my skill and competence.

If I will work with the Client side or Consultant my future will depend on my professional qualifications and membership from a professional body, the more the better.

Cheers..
Andrew Flowerdew
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Dave,

Without decrying any organisation, what’s the normally understood definition of a "professional" body?
Ernesto Montales
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My opinion is we need every help that we can get. I for myself got an accreditation with PMI on my own.

I am not biased with any Professional bodies they do offer different things depending in what you specialize in.

With PP and other Professional in collaboration I am for sure know we can achieve great things.