(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?
(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.
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Subcontractors get paid what is effectively disruption costs all the time Mike.
On almost every project there will be some amount of standing time, overtime working etc, and often claims for lost productivity/additional labour requirements due to stacking etc. These all effectively amount to disruption payments.
Although the contractor is likely to be responsible for coordinating the works, an element of such costs may be matters for which the employer is responsible, and it is by no means unusual for such payments to be made by employers.
It's a good point that you make about main contracts having to have incurred a cost themselves in terms of direct labour supplied by s/cs. I would not say though that the subcontractor needs to present a distinct "disruption" claim as such in order for the contractor to be able to make a distinct disruption claim; costs may be in variations, or maybe in the form of orders for additional labour, or maybe reflected in the subcontractors' prices where subcontract tenders are returned part way through the job on the basis of an updated programme. There's also no reason why a main contractor can't succeed in a claim for prelim thickening and the like, and also the extension of supervision and (hired) plant during the job, bearing in mind that not all prelims are planned for the entire project duration. All of these types of costs amount to disruption claims.
Hi Rob
Yes it is about disruption.
The thing everybody forgets is that if the Contractor has not recieved a disruption claim form his sub-contactor then he cannot make a disruption claim against the Employer.
I have only had 1 succesful disruption claim in the last 20 years and that was on a dockyard maintenance project where the Contractor had a directly employed workforce with detailed time sheets - otherwise No Chance.
Best regards
Mike Testro
By the way, is it me, or is it a bit odd that this thread is titled "Prolongation Claims", when the question that it asks is about disruption claims ?
No problem Mike.
I think with these things a big factor is how much data you have. If there is enough data and if there is genuinely an issue, then I think it should usually be possible to identify a trend, and to explain minor discrepancies or variances. I would suggest that it does depend to an extent what the work is though, and if the work is not of a repetitive nature, or if there are a number of factors affecting performance, then it might be difficult to use a measured mile. There are also instances where the whole job or element of work has been disrupted, in which case the measured mile approach will become inapplicable.
Cheers,
Rob
Hi Rob
I replied to your brief response.
Your more detailed explanation changes the circumstances and I withdraw my earlier comment.
I have a comment on the Measured Mile principle as it is very rare that the two subjects being compared are alike in all circumstances and it is impossible to adjust for variables.
We look forward to your further contributions.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Hi Mike,
Thank you for your welcome.
You seem to have jumped the gun though in assessing my capacity to understand the subject matter. I don't see how you can conclude that I don't have a clue about the subject matter, when I hadn't actually said anything about it.
I would also query your suggestion that the confusion in the original question has been adequately cleared up, because further explanation is still required in my view. I would explain the issues as follows :
In the case of a contract between the Employer and the Contractor :
1. Critical or non critical activites can be prolonged, and such prolongation can be caused by either party (or could simply be due to the planned activity duration being insufficient).
2. A prolongation claim, is a cost claim by the contractor which occurs where it is alleged that an event or events for which the Employer was responsible, has caused the completion of the Works to be delayed beyond the completion date, and caused the Contractor to incur a cost.
3. An extension of time claim, is a time related claim by the contractor which occurs where it is alleged that an event or events for which the Employer was responsible, has caused the completion of the Works to be delayed beyond the completion date.
All clear so far hopefully.
4. Disruption is associated with a loss in productivity.
5. A disruption claim, is a claim by the contractor which occurs where it is alleged that an event or events for which the Employer was responsible, has caused a financial loss due to a loss in productivity.
6. Is there a sure fire way of demonstrating an entitlement to payment arising from disruption ? I'd say not, however a generally acceptable method (known as 'measured mile') involves identifying alleged causes, and comparing productivity in periods in which they affect the works, to productivity for similar work during other periods. What ever method is used however, the contractor needs to demonstrate that the loss in productivity was caused by the employer.
I hope that that helps to clarify the situation and clear up the muddle.
Rob
Hi Rob - Welcome to Planning Planet
There are two jokes here:
1. You have resurrected a 7 year old topic to no good effect.
2. You have not got a clues about the different types of delay.
Read the rest of the comments and you may get a better understanding.
Best regards
Mike Testro
"Anyone got a surefire method for calculating/demonstrating prolongation as opposed to delay? This is on the premise that it is possible for something to be prolonged (and therefore incur a cost) without causing critical delay."
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was this a joke ?
Email: PPadmin@planningplanet.com
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