Website Upgrade Incoming - we're working on a new look (and speed!) standby while we deliver the project

Tips on using this forum..

(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?

(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.

Critical Path of the As Built Schedule

13 replies [Last post]
Mon, 2004-03-22 18:02
Uri Shachar
User offline. Last seen 8 years 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 82
Groups: None
My feeling is that there is no such thing. activities that happened in the past have actual values, and therefore can not be critical. This is why comparing the as built with the as planned schedule is not legitimate. Can anybody comment? Is there any literature about the above?
Top

Replies

Mon, 2005-09-19 18:31
#1
Uri Shachar
User offline. Last seen 8 years 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 82
Groups: None
Guys,

I think the UK SCL Delay & Disruption Protocol addresses most of the issues raised here.

GLOBAL CLAIMS are very difficult to substantiate since there is no ’casue and effect’. Try to avoid if possible.

Continious delays should be assessed at key milestones during the time when the delay is active. Obviously, the more ’snap-shots’ one takes the more accurate the analysis.
Top
Mon, 2005-09-19 09:19
#2
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 3 years 50 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Hi Phil,

I addition to what was said, some of the delays can not be analyze as they occured. This is true in situation where the event that cause the delay is continuing at the time of assessment of delay. In this case it will be premature to analyze the delay.

Cheers
Top
Mon, 2005-09-19 06:07
#3
stevan sarapa
User offline. Last seen 10 years 22 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 7 Jun 2003
Posts: 5
Groups: None
Dear All,


I would like to remind that it is possible to establish critical path on as-built schedule (actual finish dates should be replaced with expected finish constraint)as it was explained on Ronalds site (see his link below). But, i m not sure if my proposal is ok.

Thanks,

Stevan Sarapa
Top
Mon, 2005-09-19 05:24
#4
Phil Butler
User offline. Last seen 32 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 6 Sep 2005
Posts: 15
Groups: None
Uri

Obviously activities that have finished have no float and therefore no critical path can be identified. However, on most projects I have worked on I have been asked to look at the "as-built critical path". Whilst this does not exist using the longest path gives a good indication of which activites were driving the finish of the project.

I agree that most contracts these days call for delays to be analysed using the programme at the time of the delay, however you still end up with global claims at the end of the project that require a certain amount of historical planning.

In an ideal world all delays would be analysed as they occur, however this is not always possible on projects due to the pressures of the work on site, such is life!

Regards
Top
Mon, 2005-09-19 00:23
#5
Uri Shachar
User offline. Last seen 8 years 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 82
Groups: None
Phil,

Welcome to the forum. To me, there are two issues here:

1. Is there an As Built Critical Path? (see previous discussions). Can activities with actual start and finish dates be critical (look in your planning software - is this possible?)

2. Is the As Built Critical Path (assuming there is one) relevant to the Analysis of Delays (for most forms of standards Contract the delay should affect critical path AT THE TIME OF THE DELAY, not when the works are completed).
Top
Mon, 2005-09-19 00:10
#6
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
User offline. Last seen 14 years 6 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2 Jun 2005
Posts: 299
Groups: GPC Malaysia, Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas
Hi,
Lately a lot of new definition, I couldn’t understand where it come from.... like As built schedule, lean schedule or what ever..... is this related how to make words looks very technical. Sorry, to say maybe i far behind from the hi-tech world. To me there is no as-built schedule...only i know is Preliminary(draft), Rev.1, Rev.2 etc.
About critical Path, it being analyse to achieve smooth working access to meet target date without any interface because there is no float.
Top
Sun, 2005-09-18 23:59
#7
Phil Butler
User offline. Last seen 32 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 6 Sep 2005
Posts: 15
Groups: None
Hello all,

New to this forum, but should the term for as-built critical path not be the longest path?

Top
Sun, 2005-09-18 22:14
#8
Se de Leon
User offline. Last seen 3 years 48 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 321
Groups: None
Hi Uri,

There was a long debate already about the topic in this same category i.e. Contracts, Claims... It is entitled Critical Path History and As-built Critical Path. This topic could be one of the most debated topics here in PP.

Me too I’m of the opinion that as-built critical path strictly speaking, is not the correct term. For me, Critical Path History is more appropriate.

Cheers,
Se
Top
Sun, 2005-09-18 16:10
#9
Shahzad Munawar
User offline. Last seen 10 years 10 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2 Jul 2003
Posts: 551
Groups: None
Better to perform Delay Analysis for the said situation despite to make basless excercise which reasonable establish your delays.
Top
Sat, 2005-09-17 23:05
#10
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 3 years 50 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Hi,

Critical Path of As-built Schedule does not make sense because the activities were finish. How on earth completed activties becomes critical - "kalas or finish". There is no point in banging your head in analysing critical path of completed activities.

On the other hand, for forensic analysis in resolving claims it do make sense.

Cheers

Top
Sat, 2005-09-17 19:58
#11
stevan sarapa
User offline. Last seen 10 years 22 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 7 Jun 2003
Posts: 5
Groups: None
Ronald,

my boss wants me to determine critical path on the as-built subcontractor schedule of 1900 activities. Actually this should be done in order to find out all delays that had impact on completion date. After that each (critical) delay will be analyzed separately and divided into 3 categories (inexcusable , excusable and compensable). Schedule is done in Microsoft Project so I do not think I ll be able to follow suggestion from your web page "How to manually determine the As-Built Critical Path". I am just wondering is it possible to create a new schedule with early start and finish dates same as from actual schedule and using logic (links) that I believes were realistic. If the link does not drive activity then additional activity will be added i.e. "Start delay" so that early start really matches actual start date.

Does this make sense?

Best Regards,

Stevan Sarapa
Top
Wed, 2004-03-31 22:53
#12
Uri Shachar
User offline. Last seen 8 years 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 82
Groups: None
Roland, thank you for your answer. For most contracts, the contractor is entitles to an EOT not for actual delays to the date for completion, but for any PROSPECTIVE delays to the anticipated date for completion as impacted by the delay when occured, regardless of whether there was an actual delay or not.

My point is that the actual CP as reflected in the "as built" programme would mean nothing under such circumstances.
Top
Tue, 2004-03-23 00:19
#13
Ronald Winter
User offline. Last seen 4 years 17 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 4 Jan 2003
Posts: 928
Groups: None
This is a common misunderstanding. Please see my page http://www.ronwinterconsulting.com/apab.htm for a complete discussion of this issue. I will be presenting a paper on this subject at the AACEi Users Convention on June 13-16, 2004 in Washington. There is nothing that the mind of man cannot do,
Top