the subject has to be handeled contractually based on the historecal data and records for the weathering coditions in this particulare location and the ability of Any experiance’contractor to include in his programme thos dates and duratios in which the heavy rain or any ather adversed climatic conditions can be excepected or not.
*We have to study and analyis each and every case separetly.
*the contractor has to submit official notificaton and he has to submit full detailed particulars with all the supporting documents for this case then the engineer/client has to study all the submitted documents and to make fair assesement and recommendations.

Hi
the subject has to be handeled contractually as follw:-
*what are the historecal data and records for the weathering coditions in this particulare location.
*Any experiance’contractor has to include in his programme thos dates and duratios which the heavy rain or any ather adversed climatic conditions are excepected.
*We have to study and analyis each and every case separetly.
*the contractor has to submit official notificaton to the engineer/client if any adversed climatic conditions happened during un expected time and duration.
*the contractor has to submit full detailed particulars with all the supporting documents for this case and what was the negative impact on his planned programme.
*The engineer/client has to study all the submitted documents and to make fair assesement and recommendations.

As an immigrant Englishman to South Africa in 1976, I used the exceptional wind in Cape Town for extension of time claims, basing the principle on the unseasonal exception to normal weather patterns as recorded at the airport.

Philip, your lack of visibility from fog may have been recorded at Saldanha, Cape Town harbour or similar places, but the big problem with structural steel is condensation on the structure and the slipperiness. The UK unions were very quick to raise that one to stop guys working and it posed a serious problem if the contractor wanted to raise an exetnsion of time claim. All boils done to a reasonable view of what was expected and what actually happens.

Shamail,

I think that all the bright ideas have been exhausted. It’s been a very interesting thread.

I don’t know if you’ve lived in England, but the weather has always been the hallmark of British culture and conversation. The fact that this thread is related to heavy rain just struck-a-chord, and provided material for little giggle - although from the thread originators perspective, I’m sure that it’s serious stuff. No belittlement intended.

James :-)

James

You wuz lucky - used to dream of rice wih a good beating

Appologies to Monty Python

Hi guys it is simple, on most sites I have worked on we have rain guages, take this one step further, and install a tipping bucket rain guage, with the relevant documentation and a data logger, linked into the site it metwork, have the system approved by the client and e-mail him the records from the data logger as often as he wnts, and he he can spend his time dissecting the records, and this will will keep him out of your hair for quite a bit of the time. There might even be new positions for weathermen on sites, and this can be upgraded to full blown weether stations on every site.

The point is that for every area there is historical weather data, and if you have a blizzard with -20Dc, in Mjorca, Spain, in August, and this lasts for five days, you probably have a claim. But two days in an area where rain is normal, is not a train smash. I allow twelve woring days a year for this type of weather, besides this I also allow aprox. 100 days by excluding weekend work, 2 days can quite comfortably fitted into 112 days, unles the project had a very limted duration, like two weeks.

Raja,

I think your case is slightly different.
Good data to have if it can be certified

Hi,
James, Its true, Im working with Offshore Core Team i have to check the weather Every morning with Daily Report.
I have to check the weather, wave height to take control on daily activities subsea, chopper to mobilise worker, Barge to delivery the materials from site to the platform and being provide by the medic on the platform.
One day the barge standby it will cause usd54k so we need, manpower cannot mobilised day can cost so much, and diver it costly appropriate wheather data.

Hi Norzul,
Do your Project have weather Chart, I think every project have . I have been several Project they have this weather chart being monitor by (sometimes Area Managers, Safety or Planning engineers itself, I don know who’s scope actually) and will be submitted to Client every 24 hours for approval. This will be the prove for your Claim.

Hi Damian,
You are still on the same page, and correct, the question is was the rainfall abnormal, or normal. And the second question is was Christopher the guy who got drunk or not???????????????????????

Norzul,

Ethical conflict - actually not. The best advice you can give a client is the correct advice, ie, this claim is valid, this claim is not, or more often the case, this part of your claim is valid or not. I 100% do not believe in exagerating the chances of success in order to get some fees, even it’s bad news for the client, bad news is better than wrong news.

Having done that then it’s up to the client to decide what to do. If he want’s to spend money on a claim with little chance of success then that’s up to him, but as long as he’s 100% aware of the chances, then I don’t have a problem. In most cases when you actually explain the reasons then reality sinks home and it’s not a problem.

It’s often actually the case that there’s alot of grey areas as to liability - black and white, clear cut cases rarely end in dispute. But the same principles apply, 100% honest assessment and then it’s up to the client to decide what to do. Sometimes for commercial reasons, they can’t afford not to go for something even if they know it’s substantially a load of rubbish - but then you pick out the valid bits and make the most of them, the rest you find the best arguemnt you can think of to put forward. You may be surprised and win the day or at least put sufficient doubt in the minds of the other party that a settlement is reached. People often think the law is clear cut but it isn’t at all and an arguement well delivered, although weaker in substance than your opponents can win.

Some interesting points raised here. The same line of thought applies to this claim as any other:

1. Who is the risk of adverse weather with? By the replies I assume the Employer.
2. At the time of making the contract was it reasonable for the Contractor to have allowed for this type of event? If yes, the Contractor has no claim. If no, then the Contractor may be entitled to claim extra time and maybe money depending on what the contract says.

If the Contractor is entitled to claim then the Employer should pay up, if not, tell the Contractor to take a hike.

It never ceases to amuse me that Employers freely enter into contracts that have clauses in saying "if this event happens please Mr Contractor claim extra money/time", and then they get upset when the Contractor does claim extra money/time for the said event.

That said, if Contractors continue to put forward claims that have no real basis, hugely exagerate the value on the basis that if I claim twice as much as I need I’ll settle for half, then they can’t blame the Employers for crying wolf every time a claim goes in not matter how valid it is.

James
Interesting to note the Client buys into the risk register
while in Hong Kong these are produced and given to the Client I do not recal them being signed by the Client
Clive

Hi,
Delay on heavy rain doesnt mean can easily claim, Its depends also on fabrication / work under shed , is it no progress at all? Unless its flood every square inch.

Charlie
I am not sure I agree that abnormal conditions can so easily be written off by sticking to the basics.
A good claims person must be able to think outside the box particuarly as contracts become more stringent and the more basic methods for claims are removed by vexaious contract terms.
Claims people who can be inventive and who can come up with a different perspective to a problem are worth their weight in gold.
Still I take your point and agree that there are chancers who left unchecked can falsify the true position on a claim in their own interests. It is therefore up to Senior managers in companies to assess the risk and opportunities when reviewing claimns. This in turn requires lateral thought.
Clive

Narzul
The simplest way to my mind is to look for the “Force Majeur” clause and see what it says about inclement weather, extreme climatic conditions etc.

Having worked in Malaysia I know for a fact that our particular Contract did not allow for any respite due to inclement weather / tropical storms, as they are part and parcel of normal working practice and deemed to have been allowed for within the project allowances.

What you have to remember is the important point that was brought up by Stuart. Obtaining any time relief does not automatically provide for entitlement to recovery of costs. Again you will have to examine the basis of the respective clauses under which the Contractor is claiming their extension. Force Majeur in most circumstances does not provide for recovery of costs.

The issue raised by Philip becomes very valid if the extensions start to build up and the works are pushed into a very different part of the year – which for you in Malaysia with all the public holidays you have would be well worth examining.


As a side note I have fought the fight over “inclement weather” and won. Proving it in our case meant talking very nicely to various government departments and airports (the latter keep very meticulous weather records) into providing us with records that went back thirty plus years and then demonstrating that the weather had in fact been far in excess of the norm or average. Which is what abnormal is – beyond the average. The client saw the humour in our move (along with the seventeen plus lever arch files) and decided to let it by uncontested.

Phillip,

Long time since I’ve heard from you and a very valid point you make. On the post below, as it hasn’t been stated, I would assume the period was within the original contract period but that might be wrong.

You are 100% correct to say that if an Employer delay pushes the construction period into a period of bad weather that would not have been anticipated when the contract was made then the Contractor can claim for that period of bad weather not anticipated, even if it was normal weather for the time of year.

Determining the defintion of what is exceptional weather is the key to this one. Can’t decide anything until that is agreed.

Dear Fellows,


would like to ask how to show the bad weather days impacts on the planned activities?

Shall we include these days as non working days in the construcion calender?

Pls advise

Moh’d

Norzul,
Having worked on the Cameron Highlands Hydro scheme some 40 years ago, from what I experienced heavy rainfall can hardly be called unforeseen in Malaya.

FIDIC 4th only gives relief for exceptionally adverse climatic conditions, but you might look at Clause 12.2, under climatic conditions off the site; i.e. flooding caused by off site rainfall, or rise in water table in the tunnel.

Otherwise you should have programmed the normal rainfall days into your Clause 14 Programme, and only a significant increase in those rain days can be addressed.

Hi Sherif,

I totally agree with you, Contractor should be or can claim those we consider "Down Time" due to rainfall. In fact it’s nature who does and not us.

During the estimation before the submission of the Proposal it’s part of it, including the Resources however even though we knew that certain Tropical Countries are having this unpredicted rainfalls, but we are not sure when, weather can be change at any time.

Thanks for hearing this.

Jerry

According to the FIDIC, the contractor is entitled to claim EOT for "Abnormal Severe weather condition". The question is how to claim it.

I encountered the same situation, and had to go to the meteorological office, and got the rainfall intensitisty (measured in height/duration e.g. 2cm/hour) for that incident as well as for the past 10 years (monthly detailed). Then, I computed AVERAGE (STANDARD DEVIATION is more accurate) for the same month allover the 10 years. If it is +ive, i.e. the intensity is higher than usual, and you may claim, if it is lesser, then, you should have anticipated such rain in your planning; as such rains should be expecetd in the country.