Rates

Dear Rafael,

I agree with your views, but each companies productivity rates must be defferent,so

duration of the activities maily depends on these productivity standars.Planners

can not take anything from air.

Regards

Sunil.

Crew composition is a must to prepare a schedule other wise it will be unuseful and so far from the real world ,

and must be reiveiwd and approved by construction team before use at the schedule.

regards

Mohamed A.salam

Dear All,



Please don’t bother with the "rates" as these are variables (and will always be) because of the changing technology.



And in business, I supposed there’s a thing called "trade secret"...



and to tell you my secrets...shall depend on the "rates"



Best regards

Dear Mike,



We can put up the assumptions that were used as basis for the numbers that are up. This is the minimum.



I think that if you open up this discussion more, plenty of good practical numbers can be posted in that section.



With kind regards,



Samer

Hi all



a construction company that don’t have a database of it’s own production rate, don’t deserve to call it self a company, how could a planner knows all the production rate for a multi trade construction job ( civil, mech, piping, elect, instrumentation, telecom etc). And having an age less then fifty,



I thought it is a common sens practice that planners work with specialist superintendents to discuss and implement resource assignment, network logic, constructibility, feasibility.



and for PP production rate, even without crew compositions, perhaps they will be more useful if they are standardized by hour, thus they can be used to estimate the total budget manhour, the weight for each activity, for monitoring actual productivity versus PP productivity. But for sure, without well defined crew compositions, you can’t made an estimate for activity duration.



Best regards

Hi Samer



How are PP Admin going to "Update" a section that is already of dubious use?



Best regards



Mike Testro

Hi PP Admin,



Maybe is it time to update the section containing "Rates" in PP. This will serve a good initiation for the continuous improvement of that section.



With kind regards,



Samer

Hi Anoon



I do use published work rates from sources such as Wessex or Hutchinson but even then you have to be careful - is the rebar fixing rate applicable to prefabricated sections or is it hand tied insitu?



As I have said before in PP - and as Gary has intimated - I extract resource hours from the Contract Price.



If the estimator has used a Labour Plant Material break down then that is fine - if not I apply reasonable labour perecentages to get at the resource hours to allocate.



The next task is to apply a sensible gang size where a careful study of the drawings are required.



Best regards



Mike Testro



BTW Lo - I have edited your use of language - please avoid such terms in the future.

Dear Lo,



If you are that key person at site, then it is your job to communicate effectively with all the team. A a Project Manager, it is your responsibility to deliver the Project.



The Planner and Schedulers are assisting you in completing your job effectively. Therefore, I would suggest that you take it seriously and give them the input date that they need to run the Schedule correctly. The best source for such information are that supervisors that are completing the project. You need to site down with them, evaluate what rates they give you, and after approving them, give these rates to the SChedulers to run their numbers.



Effective teamwork at site will ensure that the numbers are as close as possible to reality and that your Model is representing the Actual Works ongoing at site.



With kind regards,



Samer

Lo Gary,

Even with the best numbers in the world, at some point someone has to make an estimate. That’s what planning is, that’s what planners do. All that’s needed to be an estimator is to be able to make an estimate.

So, what? They sit in front of the computer afraid to type in a number in case it’s the wrong number? I will let you in on a secret. Every estimate is probably the wrong number.

All,

Productivity rates are variable and different from country to country, states to states and sometime company to company. When building a rate there some parameters that needs to consider.

1)     Resource availability

2)     Environment and surroundings

3)     Safety factor

4)     Labour unions and government issue

5)     Working place

6)     Climate condition



Ex1: Productivity rates in Philippines and other Asian countries are higher than Australia, US, Middle East and other country.

Why?

1) Climate condition

2) Safety factor

3) Initiative of the worker and many others

Ex2: Working at height is less productivity than ground level

Ex3: Working at Confine Space is less productivity than open space

Ex4: Working at day time is higher productivity than night time and many others...

Therefore is not only the size of crew. General norms are based on actual and experience of most well known company and standard crew. Norms are use as a guide plus modification to suit the working environment.

Lo,



I agree with you.



From:



http://www.planningplanet.com/forum/forum_post.asp?fid=1&Cat=3&Top=67432



Production rates without crew definition is meaningless.



1-Production rates are dependent on the crew composition.

2-Crew composition and output is not limited to labor but to tools and equipment.



No wonder so many schedules out there that make no sense, production rates taken from the air without any consideration to the manpower loading, tools and equipment used.



The following production rates include not only placement but also forms, rebar installation, placement and finishing. So you got to start with a clear definition on what is included and what is not, then you need to know your crew composition. What if you use two crews, what if you use an unbalanced crew that provides you with more production per day but with a lower productivity?







If PP is not to provide the information as to make any sense, better not to provide it. Without crew composition production rates can be anything.



Look at the following PP production rate.

Concrete Placement - 16.0 - m3/day

For placing a 1,000 m3 mat foundation this translates into 62 days of concrete placement !



Just don’t use them.





I also agree with Mike, use the records (reference books) and experience of the Contractor is going to execute the works. Only use reference books from others to plug in miscellaneous items where there are no prior experience records of the Contractor.



Best regards,

Rafael

Mike,



"I have already said that you should never use other planners productivity rates."



But there are commercially available rates, do you include that?



Best regards

Hi All



The gang size depends a combination of:



1. Availability.

2. Work face restrictions.

3. Optimum crew make up.



I have already said that you should never use other planners productivity rates.



Best regards



Mike Testro

Hi Lo,



Sorry, let me add to the confusion: 8 m2 / Day



The day is what? 8hr, 10hr, 12hr or 24hrs?



Best regards

Dear Lo,



I think that the is Location/ Environment dependent. You need to discuss it with the Construction Crews.



With kind regards,



Samer