In my industry, the person performing the work, normally has the best view on the remaining units, so he or she should provide that information. Primavera provides the functionality to use the primary resource for doing this, when multiple resources are assigned to the same activity.
The one who owns the budget normally approves timesheet and (when thats done) applying the actuals to the schedules is nomally performed by the PMO as this can comprise multiple projects (owned by multiple project managers).
If it helps Ive done some research into how you need to add and remove resources (People) to a Primavera 5 database to allow for their use in the timesheet module.
Of particular interest to me were ther things I discovered during my research into how to make a resource inactive and essentially remove it fromn the pool.
It may give you some clues.
Should you like to have a copy of these Visio workflows in PDF just let me know.
Andy
Member for
18 years 9 months
Member for18 years10 months
Submitted by Dieter Wambach on Fri, 2008-04-18 15:51
Who is responsible for the quality of work and for the project - remaining units --> estimate at completion? Its the PM. So he or an representative should approve.
This will be some workload. The timesheet data is in few tables within the database and youll find, that most of the sheets will be ok - my experience. Just an idea: create some rules for a good timesheet, e.g. total working time, ratio planned to actual units. Start an automatted approval by SQL, and just focus on those which are not accepted.
Establish a time frame: Last entry to ts, period for approval, time for apply actuals and reporting. If youll report Wednesday data status previous Friday, this might not leed to success.
I believe, you are on a good way with your timesheets.
Good luck
Dieter
Member for
18 years 6 months
Member for18 years6 months
Submitted by Oliver Melling on Fri, 2008-04-18 12:04
All the project staff already use Primavera timesheets anf the programmes are planned by the PMs.
The idea is to make staff book to activities instead of codes and only report actual hours and remaining units via Teamplay, using fixed units and unit % complete to force dynamic scheduling. Using P5 as the users guide describes, we are going to create resource managers (who will be functional leads) that will assign resource to the PM plans (that will only be resourced with roles).
We are going to have 1 or 2 dedicated people to admin the timesheets and have created a standard PRINCE2 style template for the PMs to use as starting point.
It is pretty much setting up a PMO office. If the PMs that can plan alright are left to do their own plans and the planners pick up the rest of the business units plans, then we hope to be able to resource level all live plans in the EPS on a weekly basis.
Its not rocket science, but the difficult bit will be changing the culture of the company to become more project orientated.
Who do you think should approve the timesheets that will progress the plans.
Should it be the PMs who own the budget, or the functional leads that can access the amount of technical work progressed?
Member for
20 years 7 months
Member for20 years8 months
Submitted by Niek Zonneveld on Fri, 2008-04-18 10:49
Often these systems are brought in as just another MS Office application, and management doesnt have the faintest clue on the journey theyll embark.
On the other side of the pendulum managers seem to believe these systems will walk their dog and turn crap schedules into magnificent plans leading to smooth project execution.
Not strange that most of these attempts fail miserably.
Have a great weekend; we wont be out of a job soon!
Niek.
Member for
18 years 9 months
Member for18 years10 months
Submitted by Dieter Wambach on Fri, 2008-04-18 10:15
What Niek said is absolutely right: "Your management actively supports it", which is obviously not the case in your organization, i.e no chance for a succesful implementation. I assume, nobody takes it for serious,which will result in a poor quality of data.
Andy, youll better use your time to read a book, ...
As you say, that’s all the stuff that the executive management thought was not required, as it wasn’t in the original business proposal for the purchase and implementation of Primavera at the company where I was.
Neik,
I particually like the bit about a dedicated PMO - where I was didnt know what it was - I think they thought it was a rash or something.
That’s why I keep my hair cut really short - so I can’t actually pull it out. Problem there is I’ve got no padding when I bang my head against the wall.
Andy
Member for
20 years 7 months
Member for20 years8 months
Submitted by Niek Zonneveld on Fri, 2008-04-18 09:49
- Your organisation has the project management maturity and discipline, embedded in simple but sound procedures.
- Your management actively supports it
- Your people understand it and wont be beaten up with it
- You keep schedules high-level (1-2 week average duration for activities, with steps underneath is required)
- Your resources only track time in one system
- You have a dedicated PMO to respond immediately to any time tracking issues
Not a lot as you can see ;-) But with Primavera it can work (because its near real-time in the critical areas), and it is certainly worth the effort! Ive ran multiple successful P4-5-6 implementations over the past ten years, and these were not lucky shots.
H.T.H.
Niek.
Member for
18 years 9 months
Member for18 years10 months
Submitted by Dieter Wambach on Fri, 2008-04-18 08:49
Not ever using teamplay, but having had to use the timesheet module in P5, I can say that if I were to ever be offered work ANYWHERE for ANY amount of money and was told that the company was using the Primavera timesheet module, Im afraid Id laugh at them in their face and still be laughing when I got home.
The overhead required as far as I saw was horrendous. This may have been because the mental midgets that implemented the system did so without process being agreed let alone documented, Resources who were just told to book time each week, as as you would suspect they just picked the first job code that was in their project.
I tore my hair out for 8 months, and couldnt get the company to understand that they needed a seperate resource to run the timesheeting on each project (due to size and complexity), they even had difficulty in understanding that a documented process would be of benifit.
Anyway Ive even heard that the official Primavera reps here in Australia are now NOT reccomending that the timesheet module be used.
Im telling you I would laugh in the face of any company who said they were going to use it.
My two bobs worth
Andy
P.S. Congratulations to anyone who has seen this part of Primavera work seamlessly, I take my hat of to you.
Member for
20 years 7 monthsRE: Anyone using Teamplay to update their schedule?
In my industry, the person performing the work, normally has the best view on the remaining units, so he or she should provide that information. Primavera provides the functionality to use the primary resource for doing this, when multiple resources are assigned to the same activity.
The one who owns the budget normally approves timesheet and (when thats done) applying the actuals to the schedules is nomally performed by the PMO as this can comprise multiple projects (owned by multiple project managers).
H.T.H.
Niek.
Member for
18 years 8 monthsRE: Anyone using Teamplay to update their schedule?
Oliver,
If it helps Ive done some research into how you need to add and remove resources (People) to a Primavera 5 database to allow for their use in the timesheet module.
Of particular interest to me were ther things I discovered during my research into how to make a resource inactive and essentially remove it fromn the pool.
It may give you some clues.
Should you like to have a copy of these Visio workflows in PDF just let me know.
Andy
Member for
18 years 9 monthsRE: Anyone using Teamplay to update their schedule?
Oliver
Who is responsible for the quality of work and for the project - remaining units --> estimate at completion? Its the PM. So he or an representative should approve.
This will be some workload. The timesheet data is in few tables within the database and youll find, that most of the sheets will be ok - my experience. Just an idea: create some rules for a good timesheet, e.g. total working time, ratio planned to actual units. Start an automatted approval by SQL, and just focus on those which are not accepted.
Establish a time frame: Last entry to ts, period for approval, time for apply actuals and reporting. If youll report Wednesday data status previous Friday, this might not leed to success.
I believe, you are on a good way with your timesheets.
Good luck
Dieter
Member for
18 years 6 monthsRE: Anyone using Teamplay to update their schedule?
All the project staff already use Primavera timesheets anf the programmes are planned by the PMs.
The idea is to make staff book to activities instead of codes and only report actual hours and remaining units via Teamplay, using fixed units and unit % complete to force dynamic scheduling. Using P5 as the users guide describes, we are going to create resource managers (who will be functional leads) that will assign resource to the PM plans (that will only be resourced with roles).
We are going to have 1 or 2 dedicated people to admin the timesheets and have created a standard PRINCE2 style template for the PMs to use as starting point.
It is pretty much setting up a PMO office. If the PMs that can plan alright are left to do their own plans and the planners pick up the rest of the business units plans, then we hope to be able to resource level all live plans in the EPS on a weekly basis.
Its not rocket science, but the difficult bit will be changing the culture of the company to become more project orientated.
Who do you think should approve the timesheets that will progress the plans.
Should it be the PMs who own the budget, or the functional leads that can access the amount of technical work progressed?
Member for
20 years 7 monthsRE: Anyone using Teamplay to update their schedule?
Yeah, all true!
Often these systems are brought in as just another MS Office application, and management doesnt have the faintest clue on the journey theyll embark.
On the other side of the pendulum managers seem to believe these systems will walk their dog and turn crap schedules into magnificent plans leading to smooth project execution.
Not strange that most of these attempts fail miserably.
Have a great weekend; we wont be out of a job soon!
Niek.
Member for
18 years 9 monthsRE: Anyone using Teamplay to update their schedule?
Andy
May be a punching ball will help.
What Niek said is absolutely right: "Your management actively supports it", which is obviously not the case in your organization, i.e no chance for a succesful implementation. I assume, nobody takes it for serious,which will result in a poor quality of data.
Andy, youll better use your time to read a book, ...
Nevertheless: Have a nice week-end!
Dieter
Member for
18 years 8 monthsRE: Anyone using Teamplay to update their schedule?
Dieter,
As you say, that’s all the stuff that the executive management thought was not required, as it wasn’t in the original business proposal for the purchase and implementation of Primavera at the company where I was.
Neik,
I particually like the bit about a dedicated PMO - where I was didnt know what it was - I think they thought it was a rash or something.
That’s why I keep my hair cut really short - so I can’t actually pull it out. Problem there is I’ve got no padding when I bang my head against the wall.
Andy
Member for
20 years 7 monthsRE: Anyone using Teamplay to update their schedule?
Agree with Dieter here.
I would recommend to have a look at: http://www.planningplanet.com/forum/forum_post.asp?fid=&Cat=8&Top=40442
Timesheets can work if:
- Your schedules reflect reality
- Your organisation has the project management maturity and discipline, embedded in simple but sound procedures.
- Your management actively supports it
- Your people understand it and wont be beaten up with it
- You keep schedules high-level (1-2 week average duration for activities, with steps underneath is required)
- Your resources only track time in one system
- You have a dedicated PMO to respond immediately to any time tracking issues
Not a lot as you can see ;-) But with Primavera it can work (because its near real-time in the critical areas), and it is certainly worth the effort! Ive ran multiple successful P4-5-6 implementations over the past ten years, and these were not lucky shots.
H.T.H.
Niek.
Member for
18 years 9 monthsRE: Anyone using Teamplay to update their schedule?
Hi
Sorry to have a different opinion. In Germany quite a few customers use timesheet module since some years. Some of those installations I accompanied.
Andrew you are right: without a concept it will become a desaster. Concept e.g. for:
- Who has to report and when - the intervals
- Who has to hunt for time-sheets
- Which level for resource assignments --> how in detail to be reported
- Training for the staff (about 2hours)
- Reviews / approvals
- "Reporting cycle"
It isnt difficult to implement, but without a concept --> see Andys post.
Regards
Dieter
Member for
18 yearsRE: Anyone using Teamplay to update their schedule?
Thanks Andrew,
I completely agree with you.I tried my best to implement timesheet module but fialed and your post helped me alot as you help always on all issues.
Thank again.
Best Regards,
Imran Arshad
Member for
18 years 8 monthsRE: Anyone using Teamplay to update their schedule?
Oliver,
Not ever using teamplay, but having had to use the timesheet module in P5, I can say that if I were to ever be offered work ANYWHERE for ANY amount of money and was told that the company was using the Primavera timesheet module, Im afraid Id laugh at them in their face and still be laughing when I got home.
The overhead required as far as I saw was horrendous. This may have been because the mental midgets that implemented the system did so without process being agreed let alone documented, Resources who were just told to book time each week, as as you would suspect they just picked the first job code that was in their project.
I tore my hair out for 8 months, and couldnt get the company to understand that they needed a seperate resource to run the timesheeting on each project (due to size and complexity), they even had difficulty in understanding that a documented process would be of benifit.
Anyway Ive even heard that the official Primavera reps here in Australia are now NOT reccomending that the timesheet module be used.
Im telling you I would laugh in the face of any company who said they were going to use it.
My two bobs worth
Andy
P.S. Congratulations to anyone who has seen this part of Primavera work seamlessly, I take my hat of to you.