Thanks for the comprehensive response Trevor. Contacts in Newcastle would be greatly appreciated. I’m looking at a long game here but getting some feedback from active consultants would be very helpful.
As a side note, today I accompanied one of our fire compliance specialists on a walkthrough of a major shopping centre extension with the project fire engineer. Getting close to occupation and a hive of activity. A real planning challenge. It got the old construction juices flowing a little I must admit.
BTW Santosh, I’ve updated my LinkedIn profile.
Member for
19 years 11 months
Member for19 years11 months
Submitted by Trevor Rabey on Mon, 2018-10-15 02:05
Andrew, it's not just going to be an either/or proposition and it is not just going to come down to price. There are many possibilities. It is hard to see how you can not have MS Project, because it is what just about everyone in construction has got. Then, you probably also need P6 because it is what some clients will expect. Then, the others, in all of their variations might be necessary tools from time to time and depending on the client and the project.
A well as the scheduling software, such as Asta, Synchro, Spider etc, there is also an entire industry of 3rd party tools as add-ins or complementary. For example, there is Barbecana's Schedule Inspector, and Critical Tools WBS Schedule Pro and many others.
You are going to need other software tools such as an image editor (try open source Gimp), PDF writer etc etc, the list is too long. But you get what you need when you need it.
The most valuable thing you can have is acces to good help and advice from people who are prepared to give it, and that is here at planning planet as well as the MS Project community forum, the MSDN developer network, the Primavera groups etc.
If Santosh Bhat is taking the trouble to give advice, you've made a good start.
You don't need a large format printer. Your clients will have those.
You will be getting into a business with plenty of potential, limited only by your motivation to learn as much as you can and do it properly. Good luck. Want some useful contacts in Newcastle NSW?
Member for
20 years 6 months
Member for20 years6 months
Submitted by Santosh Bhat on Sat, 2018-10-13 13:53
I second that ASTA is gaining traction here in Australia (particularly so if the organisation is influenced by British ex-pats).
It will boil down to whether your clients will give you autonomy in which softare you use and are more outcomes driven, or whether they themsleves are driven by the contractual/submission guidelines under which they require your services.
Unfortunately too many contracts still specify what software they expect their contractors to use, rather than setting a set of minimum requirements.
Thank you Santosh for your detailed response. I’ll consider further & pm you if I decide to purchase P6 in some form.
Once I’ve decided on an application, driving training is next. I will do some investigation into the quality of the supporting documentation. Perhaps I can simply read the manual if one exists. However a well structured training course would ensure I cover all important bases. Basic scheduling I could work out myself, it’s the deeper functionality around resourcing, cost planning, document control and correspondence logging I need to explore.
There are also critical path analysis techniques beyond the basics I need to reacquaint myself with. Time for some reading
Member for
16 years 3 months
Member for16 years3 months
Submitted by Zoltan Palffy on Fri, 2018-10-12 14:49
I am also based in Australia, You have a few more options for MSP and P6 that you might want to consider.
Microsoft let you purchase MS Project on a subscription basis, it works out to be about AUD$40/month and can avid being a large upfront capital cost. If you're setting up and getting an Office 365 account with Microsoft, it is similar. Search for "Project Online Professional" - despite its name, it does allow you to have MSP installed on a PC also.
Similar with P6 the $3k price you list is the cost of a perpetual licese, you then have to pay Oracle their 22% annnual maintenance fee. Given ORacle are doing bugger all with the core functionality of P6, I prefer to give Oracle the least funding asa possible.
There is an option that you can just buy it for 12 months and the cost is about half that, but then you have to pay every year. It may be a cheaper option to see how things progress in twelve months time rather than again spending a lot upfront. You can also buy this option through vendors rather than directly with Oracle. Private message me if you want the name of whom I use.
I personally wouldn't go with a big printer, you clietns are likely to have the printing resources if you ever need them, and as a consultant you're more likely to be prividng documents in PDF or native format anyhow.
In Australia, small to medium contractors are likely to use MS Project (if they use anything at all,otherwise they'll rely on you and then it'll be your choice), but if you work with the larger contractors, they will tned to need P6 as that is what their clients will expect also.
Thanks Zoltan & Mike. Great advice. It’s starting to look like P6 as a starting point. The extended time out of the industry is an issue and the point on WH&S is well taken. I still have contacts in the industry I can refer to for assistance.
I’m looking at a lead time of around two years before I would consider offereing my services. In the meantime, I may seek some casual work in an established consultancy at a bargain basement rate to assist me getting up to speed.
I plan on making a substantial investment in training. Sourcing the most cost effective and useful training solutions will be key. This may include not only application specific training but also training in the current regulatory framework and planning practices.
I enjoy a challenge
Member for
16 years 3 months
Member for16 years3 months
Submitted by Zoltan Palffy on Thu, 2018-10-11 14:20
In the USA I would say that the industry standard for construction is P6. Mor ethan not especially on large projects it is a requirement in the specifications that require P6.
I have several scheduling packages and I have used both P6 and MS Project. I perfer P6 over MS Project
Since you are setting up in a new consultancy you need to equip yourself with whatever software your clients ask you to use.
So its not a choice of which one but all of them.
This should include asta powerproject which is common in Australia. The benefit of asta is that you can convert MSP and P6 to asta and convert it back again.
You do not need a big printer - an A3 laserjet will be sufficient. Your clients will have the big plotters. But in my experience you cannot track the logic in any programme that cannot be printed on an A3 sheet.
Use summary charts and sub charts.
Also the construction industry has changed in the last 23 years so you will need to bring yourself up to date in new techniques and regulations. The most change is in the health and safety regulations which have to be built in to any programme.
Also join linked in and get a good web designer (I can introduce you to one of the best) and promote your business from that platform.
And a last piece of advice. Look up my PP post of 10 years ago - Ban these planning abominations.
Member for
20 years 6 monthsAndrew.Good stuff, LinkedIn
Andrew.
Good stuff, LinkedIn is another good source for both information and to develop a network.
Santosh
Member for
7 yearsThanks for the comprehensive
Thanks for the comprehensive response Trevor. Contacts in Newcastle would be greatly appreciated. I’m looking at a long game here but getting some feedback from active consultants would be very helpful.
As a side note, today I accompanied one of our fire compliance specialists on a walkthrough of a major shopping centre extension with the project fire engineer. Getting close to occupation and a hive of activity. A real planning challenge. It got the old construction juices flowing a little I must admit.
BTW Santosh, I’ve updated my LinkedIn profile.
Member for
19 years 11 monthsAndrew, it's not just going
Andrew, it's not just going to be an either/or proposition and it is not just going to come down to price. There are many possibilities. It is hard to see how you can not have MS Project, because it is what just about everyone in construction has got. Then, you probably also need P6 because it is what some clients will expect. Then, the others, in all of their variations might be necessary tools from time to time and depending on the client and the project.
A well as the scheduling software, such as Asta, Synchro, Spider etc, there is also an entire industry of 3rd party tools as add-ins or complementary. For example, there is Barbecana's Schedule Inspector, and Critical Tools WBS Schedule Pro and many others.
You are going to need other software tools such as an image editor (try open source Gimp), PDF writer etc etc, the list is too long. But you get what you need when you need it.
The most valuable thing you can have is acces to good help and advice from people who are prepared to give it, and that is here at planning planet as well as the MS Project community forum, the MSDN developer network, the Primavera groups etc.
If Santosh Bhat is taking the trouble to give advice, you've made a good start.
You don't need a large format printer. Your clients will have those.
You will be getting into a business with plenty of potential, limited only by your motivation to learn as much as you can and do it properly. Good luck. Want some useful contacts in Newcastle NSW?
Member for
20 years 6 monthsI second that ASTA is gaining
I second that ASTA is gaining traction here in Australia (particularly so if the organisation is influenced by British ex-pats).
It will boil down to whether your clients will give you autonomy in which softare you use and are more outcomes driven, or whether they themsleves are driven by the contractual/submission guidelines under which they require your services.
Unfortunately too many contracts still specify what software they expect their contractors to use, rather than setting a set of minimum requirements.
Member for
19 years 10 monthsHi AndrewAsta powerproject is
Hi Andrew
Asta powerproject is indeed a more flexible tool then P6 and intuitive in its use.
This stems from the fact that the graphics on P6 is driven by the database algorythms and when the database is full your software freezes.
Asta Powerproject however converts the graphics on screen onto a limilless algorythm that changes with every mouse click.
It is also about 35% the cost of P6 and the annual support is much better.
As I said you can convert both P6 and MSP into asta for the work and then send it back.
Anyway good luck with your venture.
Best regards
Mike T.
Member for
7 yearsMike Testro, been asking my
Mike Testro, been asking my contacts in Australian industry and it seems Asta is indeed gaining favour here.
Member for
7 yearsThank you Santosh for your
Thank you Santosh for your detailed response. I’ll consider further & pm you if I decide to purchase P6 in some form.
Once I’ve decided on an application, driving training is next. I will do some investigation into the quality of the supporting documentation. Perhaps I can simply read the manual if one exists. However a well structured training course would ensure I cover all important bases. Basic scheduling I could work out myself, it’s the deeper functionality around resourcing, cost planning, document control and correspondence logging I need to explore.
There are also critical path analysis techniques beyond the basics I need to reacquaint myself with. Time for some reading
Member for
16 years 3 monthssounds like a plan good luck
sounds like a plan good luck
Member for
20 years 6 monthsAndrew,I am also based in
Andrew,
I am also based in Australia, You have a few more options for MSP and P6 that you might want to consider.
Microsoft let you purchase MS Project on a subscription basis, it works out to be about AUD$40/month and can avid being a large upfront capital cost. If you're setting up and getting an Office 365 account with Microsoft, it is similar. Search for "Project Online Professional" - despite its name, it does allow you to have MSP installed on a PC also.
Similar with P6 the $3k price you list is the cost of a perpetual licese, you then have to pay Oracle their 22% annnual maintenance fee. Given ORacle are doing bugger all with the core functionality of P6, I prefer to give Oracle the least funding asa possible.
There is an option that you can just buy it for 12 months and the cost is about half that, but then you have to pay every year. It may be a cheaper option to see how things progress in twelve months time rather than again spending a lot upfront. You can also buy this option through vendors rather than directly with Oracle. Private message me if you want the name of whom I use.
I personally wouldn't go with a big printer, you clietns are likely to have the printing resources if you ever need them, and as a consultant you're more likely to be prividng documents in PDF or native format anyhow.
In Australia, small to medium contractors are likely to use MS Project (if they use anything at all,otherwise they'll rely on you and then it'll be your choice), but if you work with the larger contractors, they will tned to need P6 as that is what their clients will expect also.
Hope the above helps
Member for
7 yearsThanks Zoltan & Mike. Great
Thanks Zoltan & Mike. Great advice. It’s starting to look like P6 as a starting point. The extended time out of the industry is an issue and the point on WH&S is well taken. I still have contacts in the industry I can refer to for assistance.
I’m looking at a lead time of around two years before I would consider offereing my services. In the meantime, I may seek some casual work in an established consultancy at a bargain basement rate to assist me getting up to speed.
I plan on making a substantial investment in training. Sourcing the most cost effective and useful training solutions will be key. This may include not only application specific training but also training in the current regulatory framework and planning practices.
I enjoy a challenge
Member for
16 years 3 monthsIn the USA I would say that
In the USA I would say that the industry standard for construction is P6. Mor ethan not especially on large projects it is a requirement in the specifications that require P6.
I have several scheduling packages and I have used both P6 and MS Project. I perfer P6 over MS Project
Member for
19 years 10 monthsHi Andrew - welcome to
Hi Andrew - welcome to planning planet
Good luck in your new venture.
Since you are setting up in a new consultancy you need to equip yourself with whatever software your clients ask you to use.
So its not a choice of which one but all of them.
This should include asta powerproject which is common in Australia. The benefit of asta is that you can convert MSP and P6 to asta and convert it back again.
You do not need a big printer - an A3 laserjet will be sufficient. Your clients will have the big plotters. But in my experience you cannot track the logic in any programme that cannot be printed on an A3 sheet.
Use summary charts and sub charts.
Also the construction industry has changed in the last 23 years so you will need to bring yourself up to date in new techniques and regulations. The most change is in the health and safety regulations which have to be built in to any programme.
Also join linked in and get a good web designer (I can introduce you to one of the best) and promote your business from that platform.
And a last piece of advice. Look up my PP post of 10 years ago - Ban these planning abominations.
Best regards
Mike Testro