I'm working for a developer same as you are, but the only difference, we don't use a General contractor. We tender it by trades but I think the approach shouldn't be much different. We approach the changes like this:
Basically, there are two kinds of changes for each unit. 1st one we call framing options while the other one is finishing options. Information for any framing options in a floor should be finalized a couple of weeks prior to pouring for a specific floor. For the finishing option, same thing. information for any finishing options within a floor should be finalized a couple of weeks prior to studding/partitioning. Please note, no changes are allowed on the common elements e.g. cladding, corridors etc. These cut-off dates should be coordinated with the procurement department of your contractor. In our case, we procure it ourselves since we don't use GC as I mentioned.
My suggestion to you is create the whole master schedule as if you are doing the basic design and as if there will be no changes to the design. Treat each change like a change order and enter it to your master schedule everytime there are significant modifications from the basic design. The most important thing to add in your master schedule are those cut-off dates by floor(framing and finishing) when your contractor would need information about all these changes. You may need to negotiate this with your contractor if it is not stipulated in his contract.
I hope this would work for you.
Regards,
Se
Member for
16 years 9 months
Member for16 years9 months
Submitted by Sebouh Pamoukian on Tue, 2012-07-24 09:12
The Contractor already comitted to diving about from floor to floor and this is in the interrest of the owner, since not all apartments are sold and end-users must be given the opportunity to make changes. However, some conditions are imposed by the contractor such as 40% of the apartments to be modified identified beforehand and milestones for the design change instructions as described in my posts above.
All parties are aware of the predecessors you mentionned and the Contractor is ready to bare that risk / responsibility.
The problem I am facing is with the master schedule. I prefer having all apartment finishes activities there linked according to the resources available (as in batches of apartments that are to be executed by the same crews, but without identifying the floors from the start) and as the project progresses and the apartments are identified, having the contractor link these activities to the corresponding concrete activities in the updates. Thus having the critical path more or less aparent from the beginning.
The Contractor, however, prefers to submit a schedule for the core and shell, common areas and facade leaving the creation / expansion of apartment finishes in the updates. This will not show any critical path from the start and will leave the Client "in the dark"
Appreciate your inputs.
Member for
16 years 7 months
Member for16 years7 months
Submitted by Gary Whitehead on Mon, 2012-07-23 16:29
The only option I can see is for the contractor to generate a complete construction programme, including all finishes.
Then he inserts a series of "Client finishing instruction" milestones at 2-monthly intervals, along with a suitable design & procurement cascade for non-standard finishing.
Then he links these to the finishing trades as per the worst case scenario -ie the first appartments to have finishing instructions issued will be the last apartments to be built.
Then he puts in any logic he requires to balance resources across the trades.
Throughout the project as each client instruction is recieved, the logical links can be ammended to reflect which apartments were actually instructed, which can only have a positive or neutral affect on the programme (assuming the original construction sequence is maintained for pre-finishing work)
It is quite possible that this will generate a critical path which starts at one of the client instruction milestones. This is far from ideal, but I can't see a way around it.
-If no EOT will be granted, then the original baseline programme has to reprensent the worst case, in order to avoid unfairly penalising the contractor for something which is entirely out of his control.
I agree with Mike that this is a strange way of managing the contract. Hopefully the contractor allowed for the inefficient working this situation will cause in his tender price.
There are many predecessors that link the structure to the fitout in a high rise apartment block.
For instance:
1. Weathtight conditions.
2. MEP 1st fix and carcassing - particularly if there is central heating and cooling.
3. Verical and horizontal access for materials and tradesmen.
4. Health and safety.
The contractor will require the most efficient and lucrative method of construction and that will not involve diving about from floor to floor to work on individual units.
A better procurement method will be to let the project in two stages - Shell and core and Fit Out - not necessarily to the same contractor.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
16 years 9 months
Member for16 years9 months
Submitted by Sebouh Pamoukian on Mon, 2012-07-23 13:34
1) The Contractor requested that 40% of apartment to be modified be identified within the first year. No EOT will be granted to the contractor. the contractor will proceed with the original design in case the Client misses a milestone.
2)The Contractor will allow the Client to choose the apartments to be executed as per design if the Client misses a milestone
3) the Client may instruct more than 10 but the Contractor is not bound to any completion date for each apartment, other than the project completion date.
Thank you Gary.
Member for
16 years 7 months
Member for16 years7 months
Submitted by Gary Whitehead on Mon, 2012-07-23 13:17
1) If the the client instructs all the apartment finishes in reverse order to when they are constructed, this will delay the project vs client instructing in the same order as construction progresses. In this situation, is the contractor entitled to an EOT?
2) "In case the Client misses a milestone or provides for example 8 apartment changes instead of 10, the contractor will execute the apartment finishes as per the original design" -Does the contractor or the client decide which apartments would be finished as per original design in this scenario?
3)Presumably the contract allows the client to instruct more than 10 apartment finishes in one 2-month period, without penatly?
Member for
24 years 5 monthsHi Sebou, I'm working for a
Hi Sebou,
I'm working for a developer same as you are, but the only difference, we don't use a General contractor. We tender it by trades but I think the approach shouldn't be much different. We approach the changes like this:
Basically, there are two kinds of changes for each unit. 1st one we call framing options while the other one is finishing options. Information for any framing options in a floor should be finalized a couple of weeks prior to pouring for a specific floor. For the finishing option, same thing. information for any finishing options within a floor should be finalized a couple of weeks prior to studding/partitioning. Please note, no changes are allowed on the common elements e.g. cladding, corridors etc. These cut-off dates should be coordinated with the procurement department of your contractor. In our case, we procure it ourselves since we don't use GC as I mentioned.
My suggestion to you is create the whole master schedule as if you are doing the basic design and as if there will be no changes to the design. Treat each change like a change order and enter it to your master schedule everytime there are significant modifications from the basic design. The most important thing to add in your master schedule are those cut-off dates by floor(framing and finishing) when your contractor would need information about all these changes. You may need to negotiate this with your contractor if it is not stipulated in his contract.
I hope this would work for you.
Regards,
Se
Member for
16 years 9 monthsThank you Gary. your insight
Thank you Gary. your insight was very helpful. A worst-case schedule should solve it for the time being.
Member for
16 years 9 monthsHello Mike,The Contractor
Hello Mike,
The Contractor already comitted to diving about from floor to floor and this is in the interrest of the owner, since not all apartments are sold and end-users must be given the opportunity to make changes. However, some conditions are imposed by the contractor such as 40% of the apartments to be modified identified beforehand and milestones for the design change instructions as described in my posts above.
All parties are aware of the predecessors you mentionned and the Contractor is ready to bare that risk / responsibility.
The problem I am facing is with the master schedule. I prefer having all apartment finishes activities there linked according to the resources available (as in batches of apartments that are to be executed by the same crews, but without identifying the floors from the start) and as the project progresses and the apartments are identified, having the contractor link these activities to the corresponding concrete activities in the updates. Thus having the critical path more or less aparent from the beginning.
The Contractor, however, prefers to submit a schedule for the core and shell, common areas and facade leaving the creation / expansion of apartment finishes in the updates. This will not show any critical path from the start and will leave the Client "in the dark"
Appreciate your inputs.
Member for
16 years 7 monthsThe only option I can see is
The only option I can see is for the contractor to generate a complete construction programme, including all finishes.
Then he inserts a series of "Client finishing instruction" milestones at 2-monthly intervals, along with a suitable design & procurement cascade for non-standard finishing.
Then he links these to the finishing trades as per the worst case scenario -ie the first appartments to have finishing instructions issued will be the last apartments to be built.
Then he puts in any logic he requires to balance resources across the trades.
Throughout the project as each client instruction is recieved, the logical links can be ammended to reflect which apartments were actually instructed, which can only have a positive or neutral affect on the programme (assuming the original construction sequence is maintained for pre-finishing work)
It is quite possible that this will generate a critical path which starts at one of the client instruction milestones. This is far from ideal, but I can't see a way around it.
-If no EOT will be granted, then the original baseline programme has to reprensent the worst case, in order to avoid unfairly penalising the contractor for something which is entirely out of his control.
I agree with Mike that this is a strange way of managing the contract. Hopefully the contractor allowed for the inefficient working this situation will cause in his tender price.
Member for
19 years 10 monthsHi Sebouh I am confused by
Hi Sebouh
I am confused by this question.
There are many predecessors that link the structure to the fitout in a high rise apartment block.
For instance:
1. Weathtight conditions.
2. MEP 1st fix and carcassing - particularly if there is central heating and cooling.
3. Verical and horizontal access for materials and tradesmen.
4. Health and safety.
The contractor will require the most efficient and lucrative method of construction and that will not involve diving about from floor to floor to work on individual units.
A better procurement method will be to let the project in two stages - Shell and core and Fit Out - not necessarily to the same contractor.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
16 years 9 months1) The Contractor requested
1) The Contractor requested that 40% of apartment to be modified be identified within the first year. No EOT will be granted to the contractor. the contractor will proceed with the original design in case the Client misses a milestone.
2)The Contractor will allow the Client to choose the apartments to be executed as per design if the Client misses a milestone
3) the Client may instruct more than 10 but the Contractor is not bound to any completion date for each apartment, other than the project completion date.
Thank you Gary.
Member for
16 years 7 monthsQuestions: 1) If the the
Questions:
1) If the the client instructs all the apartment finishes in reverse order to when they are constructed, this will delay the project vs client instructing in the same order as construction progresses. In this situation, is the contractor entitled to an EOT?
2) "In case the Client misses a milestone or provides for example 8 apartment changes instead of 10, the contractor will execute the apartment finishes as per the original design" -Does the contractor or the client decide which apartments would be finished as per original design in this scenario?
3)Presumably the contract allows the client to instruct more than 10 apartment finishes in one 2-month period, without penatly?