The AVM is related to bulk muck shift and is the average distance that each m3 of material has to be hauled between cut & fill zones - it is expressed as m4 and is the key to calculating productivity.
I doubt that spider has the in built matrix that is needed for the purpose.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
24 years 9 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Tue, 2009-08-18 09:42
To my mind a cut - fill matrix that calculates the Average Mass haul is not the same as a material flow chart.
I wrote my own software to calculate the AVM in lotus 123 back in the early 1980s - I know of no resource management software that does the same thing.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
24 years 9 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Tue, 2009-08-18 08:00
you suggested the nice example of manual planning of material flow. During project execution this manipulations shall be done regularly. Much easier and faster to use the software for resource management including material flows.
You suggested to use Time Chainage presentation incted of Gantt format. I think that it may be used together with Gantt Chart.
Gantt Chart and Time-Location Chart are not methods but only the ways to present scheduling results.
Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
20 years 5 months
Member for20 years5 months
Submitted by David Wallace on Tue, 2009-08-18 06:12
Absolutely concur with what mike is saying, for railways and the railway viaduct...Time Chainage is the best way to go, you can use more traditional methods (Gantt Charts, etc.) for the Stations and Bridge Structures.
On such a large project I would reccomend that your company invests in a time chainage software such as Tilos or Graphisoft rather that the normal Ganntt chart format.
With a linear project such as a railway the cut and fill schedule is the key to your productivity.
Where you are cutting through hills some of the excavated material will turn out to be "acceptable" for fill material and "unacceptable" material will have to go to a spoil heap.
As Samer said a testing lab will be part of your overheads.
If there is not enough "acceptable" material then you will have to import from a nearby "borrow pit".
The original design will take account of the anticipated ammount of "acceptable" material that should be encountered along the chainage and from this you should be able to calulate the "average mass haul" (AVM) which is set in M4 which is volume x distance in metres.
This can be established on a spreadsheet matrix where the top row is each of the fill volumes and the left hand column is each of the cut "acceptable" volumes.
In the centre of the matrix set down volumes of accptabe cut into the fill columns until:
1. All the cut is used up.
2. All the fill is uded up.
You can now calculate the AVM for each earth movement between cut and fill.
The AVM determines your productivity for excavation as the balance between haul time and nr of trucks v excavation rate is the basis for your resource management.
It also determines your cost and profitability.
When you have determined your average mass haul for each cut and fill section you should tell everyone involved what your findings are because when you start cutting you will not get the same volume of "acceptable" material as anticipiated and the average mass haul will change as will your productivity rates.
This type of control is essential for progress and cash flow.
It also determines the length and disposition of the haul roads required which in themselves may need an AVM calculation.
Best regards
Mike Testro.
Member for
17 years 3 months
Member for17 years3 months
Submitted by Samer Zawaydeh on Sat, 2009-08-15 03:56
If the Soil investigation part is going to cause you headaches, then you need to make sure that you understand the stages of taking action to solve these issues.
1. Identify the type of soil that you have.
2. Identify the type of activities that you need to take to reach your design requirements for each type of soil.
With kind regards,
Samer
Member for
16 years 3 months
Member for16 years4 months
Submitted by Scarllet Pimpernel on Sat, 2009-08-15 01:05
I couldnt agree more with you about importance of geo-studies. Soil types on some parts of this project is something that will produce headache for sure.
With Regards,
Rade Bajic
Member for
17 years 3 months
Member for17 years3 months
Submitted by Samer Zawaydeh on Fri, 2009-08-14 07:55
I did not do any similar projects in the past, but I would recommend that you do the following:
1. Keep a copy of the site survey report and know the type of ground that you will be working on.
2. Divide the project into more manageable section. You will have roads and buildings and steel structures.
3. Create your communication plan. Know all the parties; Client, Engineer, Owner, Contractor, Subcontractors, and suppliers and list them or create an organization chart. Decide with the help of your Project Manager who should be talking to how.
4. Review all your plans, contract specifications, conditions of contract, etc. This is a big assisgnment and might take months from you. But you have to read it at least one.
5. The first take in planning is to create the WBS. That is, you need to make sure that all your work that is required from you is included under one of the Major Parts that you will be writting down.
6. You will need to site with your team members and start creating the method statements on how you will be completing your job. This will generate the list of activities for each Major Part in the WBS.
7. Experience is very important, so you need to determine who has it and make sure that they are involved in the planning process.
8. Excavation and Fill is another major part. You crews or your subcontractor must be experienced and supported enought to complete the tasks.
9. Soil investiagtion technicians. The majority of the work that you will be doing, must be tested by a 3rd party. Make sure that you have them at site.
10. Railways, include the purchase of large amounts of tracks. Make sure that you have the supplier identified and you have a strong contract for the supply and stock on site of the required material as per your schedule.
Hope that the General information above would be of help to you.
Member for
14 years 1 monthHi vladmiri, Good
Hi vladmiri,
Good aftenoon....
If any one have schedule for metro tail track work schedule please forward to my mail id cutesanthosh2002@yahoo.co.in
ballast & ballastless track & also the track laying schedule
Thank you
Cheers,
By
Santhosh
Member for
24 years 9 monthsRE: Desert Railway Project
Yes, we are discussing different things.
In Spider Project you will enter truck productivities based on the distances and get the reports on quantities.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Desert Railway Project
Hi Vladimir
We seem to be discussing different topics.
The AVM is related to bulk muck shift and is the average distance that each m3 of material has to be hauled between cut & fill zones - it is expressed as m4 and is the key to calculating productivity.
I doubt that spider has the in built matrix that is needed for the purpose.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
24 years 9 monthsRE: Desert Railway Project
Spider Project does. Average is not necessary - you will get the reports to any moment and for any period.
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Desert Railway Project
Hi Vladimir
To my mind a cut - fill matrix that calculates the Average Mass haul is not the same as a material flow chart.
I wrote my own software to calculate the AVM in lotus 123 back in the early 1980s - I know of no resource management software that does the same thing.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
24 years 9 monthsRE: Desert Railway Project
Hi Mike,
you suggested the nice example of manual planning of material flow. During project execution this manipulations shall be done regularly. Much easier and faster to use the software for resource management including material flows.
You suggested to use Time Chainage presentation incted of Gantt format. I think that it may be used together with Gantt Chart.
Gantt Chart and Time-Location Chart are not methods but only the ways to present scheduling results.
Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
20 years 5 monthsRE: Desert Railway Project
Absolutely concur with what mike is saying, for railways and the railway viaduct...Time Chainage is the best way to go, you can use more traditional methods (Gantt Charts, etc.) for the Stations and Bridge Structures.
D.
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Desert Railway Project
Hi Rade
On such a large project I would reccomend that your company invests in a time chainage software such as Tilos or Graphisoft rather that the normal Ganntt chart format.
With a linear project such as a railway the cut and fill schedule is the key to your productivity.
Where you are cutting through hills some of the excavated material will turn out to be "acceptable" for fill material and "unacceptable" material will have to go to a spoil heap.
As Samer said a testing lab will be part of your overheads.
If there is not enough "acceptable" material then you will have to import from a nearby "borrow pit".
The original design will take account of the anticipated ammount of "acceptable" material that should be encountered along the chainage and from this you should be able to calulate the "average mass haul" (AVM) which is set in M4 which is volume x distance in metres.
This can be established on a spreadsheet matrix where the top row is each of the fill volumes and the left hand column is each of the cut "acceptable" volumes.
In the centre of the matrix set down volumes of accptabe cut into the fill columns until:
1. All the cut is used up.
2. All the fill is uded up.
You can now calculate the AVM for each earth movement between cut and fill.
The AVM determines your productivity for excavation as the balance between haul time and nr of trucks v excavation rate is the basis for your resource management.
It also determines your cost and profitability.
When you have determined your average mass haul for each cut and fill section you should tell everyone involved what your findings are because when you start cutting you will not get the same volume of "acceptable" material as anticipiated and the average mass haul will change as will your productivity rates.
This type of control is essential for progress and cash flow.
It also determines the length and disposition of the haul roads required which in themselves may need an AVM calculation.
Best regards
Mike Testro.
Member for
17 years 3 monthsRE: Desert Railway Project
Dear Rade,
If the Soil investigation part is going to cause you headaches, then you need to make sure that you understand the stages of taking action to solve these issues.
1. Identify the type of soil that you have.
2. Identify the type of activities that you need to take to reach your design requirements for each type of soil.
With kind regards,
Samer
Member for
16 years 3 monthsRE: Desert Railway Project
Rade,
By the way, where is the desert located: Arabian desert, Gobi desert, Sahara Desert.
Im just wondering where is the location.
I might be of help if the location is somewhere in the Arabian desert, specifically GCC (Gulf Cooperation Countries).
Thank you,
Scarlett
Member for
16 years 4 monthsRE: Desert Railway Project
Thank you for your time Same.
I couldnt agree more with you about importance of geo-studies. Soil types on some parts of this project is something that will produce headache for sure.
With Regards,
Rade Bajic
Member for
17 years 3 monthsRE: Desert Railway Project
Dear Rade,
I did not do any similar projects in the past, but I would recommend that you do the following:
1. Keep a copy of the site survey report and know the type of ground that you will be working on.
2. Divide the project into more manageable section. You will have roads and buildings and steel structures.
3. Create your communication plan. Know all the parties; Client, Engineer, Owner, Contractor, Subcontractors, and suppliers and list them or create an organization chart. Decide with the help of your Project Manager who should be talking to how.
4. Review all your plans, contract specifications, conditions of contract, etc. This is a big assisgnment and might take months from you. But you have to read it at least one.
5. The first take in planning is to create the WBS. That is, you need to make sure that all your work that is required from you is included under one of the Major Parts that you will be writting down.
6. You will need to site with your team members and start creating the method statements on how you will be completing your job. This will generate the list of activities for each Major Part in the WBS.
7. Experience is very important, so you need to determine who has it and make sure that they are involved in the planning process.
8. Excavation and Fill is another major part. You crews or your subcontractor must be experienced and supported enought to complete the tasks.
9. Soil investiagtion technicians. The majority of the work that you will be doing, must be tested by a 3rd party. Make sure that you have them at site.
10. Railways, include the purchase of large amounts of tracks. Make sure that you have the supplier identified and you have a strong contract for the supply and stock on site of the required material as per your schedule.
Hope that the General information above would be of help to you.
With kind regards,
Same