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WHY PROJECT MANAGER ALWAYS EXCUSABLE ???

35 replies [Last post]
Arnold Puy
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Guys,

I need your opinion & perception. Actually, I experienced this situation, I want to share and seek advice from you.

Why Project Manager always makes excuses? During Progress Meeting they always blamed the Planner / Scheduler when it comes to Weak Progress.

I know NOT ALL Project Managers formulate justifications.

Arnold

Replies

Julius Espina
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hi guys,

I think the topic has been derailed he he.




Merry xmas
Carmen Arape
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CHARLIE,

I cannot be different from others PP member at accepting your apologies in order to restore the serenity and equanimity.

Teasing Ms. Carmen in order to let her express ideas in this scenario. I do accept your provocations if you do not contravene the high moral values. Knowing that we all have different moral values, let’s agree the top human moral values.

I do agree with you about the bad taste of the story. Let’s think It was a bad taste gossip.

Let’s start from “0”.

Cheers,
Arnold Puy
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Guys, I am sorry also I started this POST but I didn’t mean to hurt ANYONE. It is just a part of Project Management Issue based on my expeience.

Dieter is RIGHT. We are just Human Being. Thank you to ALL of you for giving time and ADVICE.

Regards,

Arnold
Dieter Wambach
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Charly
Apoligizes accepted from my part as well. I didn’t want to hurt you, it was just contents of your post.
I would like to have some more discussions with you. By the way, discussions with persons of the same background for me are boring.
Regards from Germany
Dieter
Anoon Iimos
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Charlie,

You are excused!
Charleston-Joseph...
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Thanks MIke,

By the way, How will I know that someone is my own size.

We are all incognito physically,

mentally, emotionally, professionally, etc. It is very hard to know if they are the same size as me.

Any idea????

I can give some of my vital: 5’ 4", 150 lbs, medium built. My shoe is 42. I graduated Bachelor of Science in Civil Engineering, I have 24 years of experience in construction project management, from design phase, procurement phase, and construciton phase in propery developemnt, EPC in oil and gas, Tower/High rise building construction, Metro Rail experince, roads and bridges construciton, Methanol plant, Petrochemical plant, LNG Trains, etc.

Anyone in PP the same size as me.

Regards,
Charlie
Mike Testro
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OK Charlie - apology accepted for my part anyway.

But next time you want to tease someone on PP pick on someone your own size.

Best regards

Mike Testro
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi MIke,

I do agree,

This is one of my many mistake here in PP.

It is just to show I’m human being, I did made mistake.

On the other hand, the story is more on provoking Ms Carmen to express her ideas in this scenario.

Sometimes it is tempting to tease Ms. Carmen.

I think it was done in a very bas taste.

Charlie
Mike Testro
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Hi Charlie

Just because it was fiction does not make your words any more palatable to the rest of us.

Anyway I am with Voltaire when he said "I do not like what you say but I will defend your right to say it"

Best regards

Mike Testro
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi Guys and Gals,

The story was fiction.

It was a story told to me by someone who was told by someone and who was also told by someone and so on and so forth. It was propagated by rumourmongering.

I’m sorry to disturb your equanimity or serinity or sense of high moral values.

Like all of you, I did find the story revolting.

Charlie
Dieter Wambach
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Charlie
I don’t know in which mood you were writing your previous comments. It’s full of racism. While working for a project we have to cooperate with persons – human beings! – from everywhere, with different backgrounds and sex, always a great advantage. Such racism as shown by you would the end of all cooperation and of project work.
You complain being asked to be driver for someone you evaluated as inferior, why not? Come down from your cloud! We all have to do things we don’t like from time to time, that’s job life. (I don’t speak of something illegal.)
Statistics show that in Europe many marriages raise from cooperation at work - it may be similar in other parts of the earth. Why you are jealous?
Two of your sentences I absolutely disagree because it’s nothing but racism: "it is only natural for their race to corrupt the system to achieve their personal goal." And "it is in her blood to act that way". NO!
I agree with Carmen, it’s always a question of persons never of races. You’ll better reconsider parts of your post.

Regards

Dieter
Carmen Arape
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Charlie,

Your story does not make me feel depressed, on the contrary the prejudices hidden in your story made me feel sick.

Apparently corruption is linked to races. Rubbish, corruption is linked to the lack of values, moral of people in charge.
Corruption is linked to the lack of effective systems that control the public administration.
It is linked to the poor education of the majority of the population in countries where money comes with less effort (oil countries).
I can add more reasons to show that races is just a parameter associated to the societies where corruption is happening. The main reason for corruption is not the race.

The statement “” as money can buy”” opens the door for corruption. I can mention thousands of cases where people or companies with money and power go to countries where corruption is a normal and welcome practice and what happens. They do business in the same way as the local’s ones.

Finally, your story sounds familiar to me. I venture to say that her native land is Venezuela or any country in South America.

Cheers,

Arnold Puy
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PP Members,

Well, thank you to ALL of you GUYS for sharing & contributing your opinion & ideas based on your experienced. WE are NOT against to our PM’s performance. We are just trying to EXPRESS out what is really deep inside.

Regards,

Arnold
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi Carmen,

My story is different because when the girl joing our team, I already know that she will be promoted. She is tall, fair skin, not so beautiful but shee look vulenrable, a weak point in some gals with chivalry. I also know that it will be comming because when I worked in her native land, my boss with the same race as her told me "it is only natural for their race to corrupt the system to achieve their personal goal." I believe it will come to this because I observed them doing it in my own native land.

So it started after I finished my annual leave and return to work. I was surprised that my boss, the owner of my company, gave me verbal instruction to be the driver of the girl. My designation was Project Control Manager while the girl is very junior with minor experiecen. At first, I’m not really comfortable with the arrangement. Eventually, the girl shed her true colors and started to issued instruction to me.

OH MY GOD. I did think What is happening now. But with my true Spanish blood, i find it difficult to accept instruciton from junior colleagues.

On incident, my boss and the girl went to overseas trip with alibi to conduct factory visit, only the two of them. When they come back, the world is very different in our office.

My boss was acting idtiotic, moron, teenager, madly in love. It was really very difficult for me.

My analysi is that I can’t blame the girl, it is in her blood to act that way, she also had a child to raise alone. she badly need a "PAPA" OR SUGAR DADDY.

While the sugar daddy, I also can’t blame because all the time he was raisedd loving cammel, goat, sheperd, lamb, etc. Now that he is a very rich man and some warm ass to very much willing as long as money can buy, then it is only natural event to happen.

Of course , since immorality started to be practice in the project, then, the PROJECT IS BOUND TO FAIL.

Sorry, I can’t give you her number.

Cheers,
Charlie

Carmen Arape
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Arnold, Mike

While your story made feel depressed about some realities happening in some societies, Mike found it great and funny.

May be, I am able to perceive the suffering of the daughter and MIKE perceives or identifies with the feelings of the Foreman or the Owner of the Company.

Cheers,
Mike Testro
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Hi Arnold

Great story - I wonder how far he would have got if he had added a couple of camels to the deal.

Bestr regards

Mike Testro
Arnold Puy
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Hi to ALL,

I am NOT saying that ALL Women is always the VICTIM. Listen GUYS.. I’ll tell you one story. I have one former COLLEAGUE, he is a Foreman, one of his dreams is to become PM someday but he is NOT an ENGINEER.

Just to make his dream come TRUE, he tried to USED his daughter to OFFER to the OWNER of the Company where I worked before and he became successful to his DREAM. Until finally, he got the position. It’s a LONG story but, BELIEVE me or NOT this is absolutely TRUE because up to now his daughter still the MISTRESS of my former EMPLOYER.

This is one of the few cases in Construction Industries WHY PROJECT FAIL??????

Regards.
Carmen Arape
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Mike,

It is not my story, It is Charlie’s, please read post #10 below.

I was wondering WHY if a woman is promoted you (men) think in some practices (called immoralities) done before the promotion.

Best regards,


Mike Testro
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Hi Carmen

I liked your story about the mistress breaking into management.

In her case she got screwed before promotion.

With planners its the other way round.

Best regards

Mike Testro
Carmen Arape
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Charlie,

Have you been in a project with mistress promoted to management position without qualification.

Would like to get in contact with her. May be she can give some tips regarding HOW she did it. It seems that with my qualifications I am going to be frustrated all my life like you all.

Cheers,
Arnold Puy
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Charlie, that’s TRUE. NOT ALL PMs with 20+ years experience were involved in CONSTRUCTION. Some of them maybe Salesman or whatever before they join the construction industry. But you can see in there CV from the time they graduated from Engineering, it was already counted as part of their experience in CONSTRUCTION.

My Deputy Project Manager now, He is just 31 years old. I am not quite sure if he is qualified, maybe just because he has some connection & influence or has the convincing power. NOBODY knows….

Dieter, you are RIGHT. I was completely UPSET. I’m not disappointed with my career but for those PMs who are pretending that he knows everything. I love my WORK as a PLANNER and I will keep on PLANNING for the rest of my life. I agree with you that PMs are just human being. However, some of them are treating us not like a human but like an ANIMAL. They are shouting us and they can do whatever they wants.

Regards,

Arnold
Anoon Iimos
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Hi to All,

I don’t believe and understand why until now, there’s a wrong impression about the Planner. Unless you guys don’t know what a project is, you’ll never know what a Planner is!

And what is a Plan? Do you really think that only the Planner is doing the Plan? And what is a Project Team?

What usually happens is (and this is a fact), say there is a Plan in place, which maybe prepared by the so-called Planner, which is supposed to be reviewed and decided by the so-called Project Manager or the whole team (if they really are concerned or really knows what they are doing!). And another fact is, not everybody in the team knows that so-called primavera or whatever! unfortunately it is only the Planner! And who ends-up reviewing and reporting that so-called Plan? It’s only the Poor Planner!

Now, here comes the problem, of course the meeting will be presided by that so-called Project Manager! And I believe (always) that problems (at least regarding Schedules) never came out during the initial stage of the Project (because nobody really understands the Plan! or maybe only the Planner). And the pretending Project Manager will just say, oh Mr. Client, don’t worry, everything is under control! you have the best Contractor with you! (sorry, i’m afraid this will be a long story).

to be continued...
Dieter Wambach
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Abdul
Unfortunately the class of pm you described is not the standard. It seems to improve, but there are still too many who just need a (painted) schedule for a proposal ignoring that this will become part of the contract. So too frequently for us the first step is to look for documents. Then we have read tender, basic engineering etc. and check what we need for the schedule. This schedule never will become "their" schedule. Those pms we must educate because they will blame the planner if anything is wrong in the project. First step: Is the planner invited to the kick-off meeting?
But for my impression this is improving more pms sit together with the planner in the very first stage and check documents and try to provide what still is needed for a schedule. They will carefully listen to our alerts - so much less risk for breaking timeframes.
But Abdul contradiction in one item: Primavera is nothing but a tool where we as planners must be experts, but not the pm. He/she must understand why a certain date is calculated, what a resource histogram does mean, or a %-complete, but not how to use Primavera for planning & scheduling. It would be a plus, but not essential. I’m sure there are some other good scheduling software, which I don’t really know.

Regards
Dieter
Axel Quezon
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Hello Guys,

In this setuation now I think that the Planner is like a chopping board. I work before as a project manager and every thing is well planned like bugetary,project schedule,etc. with the help of my planner.In this case I dis aggree that Primavera is a tool only,because if you understand project management you can understand also what the planner do in primavera. In the first place who gives a pertinent document, information to the planners? PM,Directors,etc.As a planner now in middle east Im asking to our PM to provide me approved plans,pay items,specifications,milestone,quantity,unit price so that I can creat a complete project schedule.The answer of our PM to me why so many?This manager don’t believed me in three months, but after this he is always in my office asking for progress,target collectible amount, manpower requirement,materials requirement,equipment required in the project.


Cheers

Abdul

Dieter Wambach
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Arnold
You seem very disappointed. You can meet many pm who don’t know Primavera, for my opinion that’s ok, because Primavera is just a tool, but they MUST be able to understand a printed schedule.
PM doesn’t know "early start": Some years ago I did trainings for a big international company for pms who were responsible for some billions of US$. I felt very strange that out of 24 highly qualified and paid pms only one knew about early start or float! This one was a contractor - that’s life! Later I frequently found an equivalent situation.
As written before, for my opinion we have to do some more advertisement for our profession. Currently we have a strange evaluation in pm done by engineers: you must know e.g. slug catcher, coalescer, fermentation. Schedules: Many I found which reminded me more to a painting of Miró than something related to time and dates. What the pm doesn’t understand is of inferior importance. Some pm only realize dates, when they are made responsible for a penalty due to exceed of time - dates? that was the scheduler!
But who is able to explain a schedule to them? We can’t change the world, but persons.
Still it is a long way to go, but I’m optimistic. In the company where I work, all pms will have to pass certifications - many did already. They all learn e.g. early start. I assume other companies do the same.
BUT: I like my job, it’s challenging, covers all aspects of a project and I’m able to influence!
Regards
Dieter
Samer Zawaydeh
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Dear Arnold,

There are two answers to your question:

1) The planner is doing a bad job and he deserves to be blamed. In this case you will need to know what is presented at each progress meeting and if enough information was given to keep the project on track.

2) The Planner is blamed to cover others mistakes. In this case, if you stand up to the PM you rish losing you job, or you can keep doing your good job and try to explain to the other team members blaming you what is going on and what they should be doing to improve the situation.

Good luck,

Samer
Charleston-Joseph...
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Take for example the ousted Prime Minister of Thailand, Mr. Samak

He was elected as Prime Minister (politics). But he love to cook. He was showing his skills as a chef or cook.

It is the same way with Project Manager in situation where the appointment is base on brotherhood, fraternity, nepotism, politics, immorallity (mistress promoted to management position without qualification), etc.

What can you do if your PM got the job due to as mentioned above.

It is only natural that at the end of the day, the planner will take the blame.

Cheers,
Charlie
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hello to all.

What your are trying to say is that "NOT ALL 20++ EXPERIENCE ARE QUALITIFED PM"

What is the 20++ experience all about???????

it is called!!!!!

20++ YEARS OF WRONG EXPERIENCE
Arnold Puy
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Guys,

I was working before in Saudi Arabia with ARAMCO PROJECTS for 5 years with different Project Managers, and even one of them doesn’t know the basic of PRIMAVERA. We are using before P3 3.1. I cannot imagine why the CLIENT approved these PMs without any certificate. They are only looking for the EXPERIENCE if it is more than 10-20 years. However, we are not sure if these PMs working for construction for more than 10-20 years.

I was really surprised when one of my PM asked me what is the meaning of EARLY START? I saw him bringing 3 Inches thick Project Management Book with PRIMAVERA’s MANUAL and he asked me to teach him Primavera which is NOT in my contract.

One of my PM received the Certificate of APPRECIATION for SAFETY, and he was completely happy and put this certification hanging on the wall & this is the ONLY CERTIFICATE I’ve ever seen from his room for 15 years of experience in Construction, this is according to his CV we submitted to the CLIENT.

NOW, WHY ARE THEY BLAMING US with regard to DELAYED ACTIVITIES, WEAK PROGRESS, OUT OF THE BLUE PROGRESS. If we are ahead of schedule, PMs will say IT IS because of ME, I keep on PUSHING them. If we are behind of schedule it is because of POOR PLANNING, it is because the Planner did not inform me, it is because the PLANNER is not qualified, it is because he don’t know the SOFTWARE.

GUYS, sorry for telling all of these but, this is true and based on my experience. I hope this will not happen to the NEW Planners out there.

Cheers,

Arnold

Carmen Arape
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Charlie

I do not agree with this comment “ the primavera software is very complicated”. It is complicated for those planners that are in this business without the proper background.

We (planners) need to communicate in an easy way the uptput coming from the software. We need to spend time training or coaching the educated or not very educated PMs and team leaders.

The ideal situation would be PMs with certificate BUT I do not see that here.

Cheers,


Charleston-Joseph...
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Arnold,

I have come across a project wherein the PM of the consultant and the PM of the contractor pretend to know planning. Of course PM should know planning since generaly project must have a plan.

What is wierd about these guys is that they have presented to their client that the project was delay for 75 calendar days when in fact, based on the updated P5 program, the project was delayed 210 calendar days. The reports had been ongoing for 4 months prior to my involvement.

When I enter the project, I did blame the constractor planners since the presentation of their reports make it hard for the consultant PM and contractor PM to straight away indentify the delays.

In a way, sometimes planners may be blame considering that the primavera software is very complicated for those not familiar with the software. If the planner will make it difficulft for ordinary layman to understand what this Primavera planning all about, then, the planner will be to blame.

Cheers,
Charlie
Arnold Puy
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Dieter,

Agree..What a good EXAMPLE..Thanks Dieter..Perhaps I come to realize when I become a Project Manager someday..HOPE SO..hehe..

Arnold
Dieter Wambach
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Hi Arnold
Mike is right planners do mistakes as well.
The behaviour of some pm: Isn’t it human? Look at Politicians or Bankers who just gambled with money belonging to others. You and me, we must pay for the losses (as tax-payers), while those bankers relax on their leisure boats in the Caribean or Mediterranian Sea. The easiest to blame for many PMs, because they don’t understand their schedule, is the planner.
Maybe we have to improve advertisement. Planners/Schedulers MUST be integral part of the project team. We must improve our presentations of the schedule, improve our communication skills. In the company I work, in all trainings for PM certificates I have the chance to present Planning/Scheduling, in future trainees (beginners with a university degree) will pass scheduling as well.
Arnold don’t be too disappointed! PMs are humans as well.
Regards
Dieter
Arnold Puy
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Mike,

I agree with you Mike. But prior for submittal of the PROGRAMME, the last person who will check & approve is the Project Manager. I know PROGRAMME is not always acurate & even the other Disciplines in SITE doesn’t care about the approved Schedule.

Regards
Mike Testro
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Hi Arnold

Do not put aside the possibility that the programme IS wrong - it does happen from time to time.

Best regards

Mike Testro