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Management vs Leadership?

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Norzul Ibrahim
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Hi

There seems to be several studies, researches and books being published to explain the distinction between management and leadership.

Is there such differences? Appreciate your inputs. To kick off the discussion, I was told that management is about "things" whereas leadership is about "people". Do yu agree?

norzul

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Kritika Pandey
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The main difference between leaders and managers is that leaders have people follow them while managers have people who work for them.

A successful business owner needs to be both a strong leader and manager to get their team on board to follow them towards their vision of success. Leadership is about getting people to understand and believe in your vision and to work with you to achieve your goals while managing is more about administering and making sure the day-to-day things are happening as they should.

WHILE THERE ARE MANY TRAITS THAT MAKE UP A STRONG LEADER, SOME OF THE KEY CHARACTERISTICS ARE:

 

  • Honesty & Integrity: are crucial to getting your people to believe you and buy into the journey you are taking them on
  • Vision: know where you are, where you want to go and enroll your team in charting a path for the future
  • Inspiration: inspire your team to be all they can by making sure they understand their role in the bigger picture
  • Ability to Challenge: do not be afraid to challenge the status quo, do things differently and have the courage to think outside the box
  • Communication Skills: keep your team informed of the journey, where you are, where you are heading and share any roadblocks you may encounter along the way

No matter how complex your work is, you really need tools that help you simplify the process. An online or on-premise portfolio and project management tools are designed to help leaders and management tracking multiple projects, with simple to use collaboration features that extend across the entire organization.

Chris Oggham
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Gordon,

Take no notice, mate. Nobody else does, just remember Charlie’s had a sense of humour bypass, so he doesn’t understand one-liners and throwaway remarks. Happy New year to you too.

Chris
Gordon Blair
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.... coming from Charlie, I’m not sure how you should take that......

Happy new year all
Charleston-Joseph...
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Alex, you’re on drugs,

as in drug A#$ict or depe$%#t=t.

Commomn men, don’t e too honest here in PP.

You seem to be one of the sensible planner here in PP.

Alex Wong
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Dear all

Is it me or something not seem right, reading some of the postings seem to be so confusing

O well, must be me taking the wrong drug again

Al
Jerry Alivio
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Brad,

You should be a Comic Writer not a planner, sure you don’t feel bored...;>

Joking side..
Brad Lord
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i know just a whipper snapper still got stabilsers on my bike!!!!!!!!!
Clive Randall
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Only 16 years
Brad Lord
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ooooh who knows all the acronymns i will have to read a book about planning only been doing it for sixteen yrs did’nt know about project risk anlaysis bore bore snooooozzee!!!!!!!!!!11
Jerry Alivio
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Brad,
To be honest to you, I think you knew this; That all Planners on Earth experienced a Negative Variances in progress. That is why there is what we called (PRA)- Project Risks Analysis.

Regards,


Jerry Alivio
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Hello Brad,

I hope at this moment you are in good health. Well, if you are now doing some sort of Planning or if you are a Planner, I think you land in Airport, you suppose to be in a Sea Port. For me, If ever I’ll signed contract to be a Planner or a Manager it is guaranteed that i love my job, it’s a very simple "logic", if you don’t like it, you quit, If you like love it and be proactive.

Cheers!
Brad Lord
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what do we have here jerry a, some kind of hero who only works on successful projects, well bully for you, come and work in uk for some of the companies i have worked for and you will be sorry mate, you try and bore bore do the right thing boring boring planning aaaarrrrggggghhhhh!!!!!!111
Jerry Alivio
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Hello Guys,

For me I don’t feel that Planning is boring, and I like to attend progress meeting too...he..he of course my progress is positive...
Hello! Charles, how are you man..

Regards,

Jerry
Brad Lord
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where i work it is called lack of progress meeting, i sit there and say that we have not achieved the work planned and we are now 2 months behind, i dont say silly things like how are we going to pull back the slippage as they dont know themselves, oh joy never mind payday tom
Clive Randall
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I like progress meetings.
Its where you realise that nobody knows what the state of play realy is.
The other thing that makes me smile is the attention that is paid to what has happened rather than what needs to happen.
Brad Lord
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very good. whats that just goona drop some more happy pills whilst i go into a progress meeting, boreiinngggg
Clive Randall
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Brad
I dont do planning anymore I watch other people doing it
Maybe Im a successful planning manager
Ha Ha
Qui
Jah
Hai
Yes
etc etc etc

Brad Lord
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if your all so bored of planning may i suggest a different career path!!! or is the money so good you dont mind the boredom, which is why i am writing this and not doing my work snnoooozzzeee!!!!


Carmen Arape
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Oliver,


YEEEES, the threads of these TWO contributors make my boring planning day less bored.

Oliver Melling
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How about the English word ’stupendous’
Carmen Arape
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Gentlemen,

Fully agree with Clive that planning is boring. What make the activity interesting is the planner’s
Attitude. You mentioned “wide perspective on life”. This quality is not everybody, just for FEW. How can you get it, Sorry to say that you can not buy it in the supermarket.

Sensei, thanks for your words, make me feel well.

To those who are in the list of most active Discussion Forum contributors, I would like to say that I can read your threads without being bored. I can make another comments BUT no boring. Specially two contributors I find their threads estupendos (no English word). No need to mention names because they know WHO they are.

Cheers,
Gordon Blair
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ahh... it’s a bit like ’our tune’ with Simon Bates

sorry folks, english radio reference
Charleston-Joseph...
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Jerry,

What we have on board is Carmnen.

I found her sensible in the way she post in PP.

The other gals are for you to give an opinion. I prefer to withhold my opinion of the others, but, believe me, Carment making sense of our planning planet.

Just like you, I live in the man’s world of construction. From sunrise to sunset, it is always a battle to get the work done my way, no other way but "MY WAY".

When I worked in Malaysia, I worked at Head Office. My boss was a female. The first time and the only time I worked with a female boss. She was very gentle to me. Then and then, I know it was different if girls are the leader. We did a lot in changing the way we did our work in an effective manner. Eventually, she left me for a better offer and my new boss was .... So it was war, a war I loss.

So we will see where this thread will lead us.

Cheers,
Sensei
Successful Project Management Consultant

Clive Randall
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yes yes
planning is boring
now ive said it
maybe i will say it in 10 different languages just to prove that im capable of saying boring.
However
the idea of discussing the greater areas of life is to me essential for planners. This ensures we have a wider perspective on life and are able to fix our location in the world. After all if we only talk about planning, and love planning and all the other BS we would become mad and insular.

To answer your book comment Carmen, I would suggest Ishmael. Its a book best read on holiday and I feel must be read at least twice.
Jerry Alivio
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GUYS!!!

Now, I believed that this is the time to know more about nonesense than those Planning items.
Can we change the issue to a better one... be professional.

Good Sense,
Oliver Melling
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Deleting emails about this thread is starting to get boring now.

This website should change name to ’Lonely’PlannersPlanet.com

Charleston-Joseph...
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AIWA in Arabic,

Ya in Bahasa Malaysia

Oui in French
Ja in German
Hai in Japanese
Y in Chinese
Ja in Dutch Netherlands
Vai in Greek
Sim in Portuguese
Ja in Swedish

Wan in Ilocano
OO in Tagalog and Bisaya

YES Carmen

Charleston-Joseph...
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Carmen,

I confirm I say "Si" in espanol

"YES" in the universal language

Cheers,
Sensei
Successful Project Management Consultant
Carmen Arape
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Clive,

My topics:
1.- If you had the opportunity to choose your career again, what would you choose. And WHY
2.- Favorite film and why

3.- A book that has influenced your life.
4.- Is China a sleep giant?. Will China become the next Empire??

5.- Being EXPAT for many years, what is your opinion about cultures and human beings.
6.- South America. Are we born corrupted.

Charlie,

Knowing Clive and my topics, please SAY YES.

Cheers
Chris Oggham
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Clive,

Charlie jumping to conclusions? Surely not? It’s simply because he doesn’t read the other posts in the thread. I seem to recall that you explained to him once before your antededents, I suppose he must have missed it.

Chris
Demetrius Aler
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Hey Clive,

Going thru this chain, just thought one good topic to discuss would be :

- PLANNERS - how bored are you?

Cheers!
Clive Randall
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Charlie


There you go again, jumping to conclusions imagining Im English and a gentleman

tut tut
Charleston-Joseph...
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Carmen,

You made sense.

But believe me, woman and man relationship discussion is very normal for people with Spanish blood.

The english gentlemen are very shy of their EMOTIONS.

Believe me Carmen, it will be an uphill climb to arrive at something manageable in this kind of conversation.

OF course I agree with your post.

Cheers,
Clive Randall
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Now the red was the start of the evening.
I am not one to adhere to the addage of not mixing grain with grape.

I would welcome a discussion on all matters not related to planning allthough one on the man woman thing could lead to the same result as discussing polotics.

As to Charlie sitting at the table sipping milk, I have no issues with this as long as he promises to be non violent towards my delicate personage.

Discussion topics,
1. The best places to see sunsets
2. The funniest job we ever worked on
3. Project management a double entendre
4. Great train journeys
5. South America because I have not been there

Carmen Arape
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Clive,

Being part of the group of doing things with moderation, I will be delighted to sit with you in Rome with a bottle of Chilean wine for you (for instance,Casillero del Diablo) and a bottle of Balvenie for me.

How can we persuade Charlie to sit with US. First, accepting him the way he socializes with Milk. No jokes about that. Second, avoiding any topic regarding planning and leadership.
If we believe we are successful planners and leaders in our fields, why to talk bout that.

What are we going to talk about , Planners and PM Consultants. I will propose, woman and man relationship.

Looking forward to hearing your topics.

Cheers

Douglas Byles
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G’day all,
Interesting discussion, (not the least of which is Amsterdam).

I always think of Leadership as "The ability to instil in others the will to want to follow." i.e be led.

I think it is a key component of a good manager, but a good leader may not be a good manager.

I see people every day, whom their employees really enjoy working for, but their departments are just not achieving the results.

Other depts have great results but the people are being "managed" to achieve that and are less satisfied than others.
Clive Randall
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Returning from a well earned rest I am overwhelmed at the possibilities on this thread.

Charlie wishes to wrestle me to the ground and beat the cr** out of me while also indicating we could never sit at the same table. Should I throw the towel in and let Charlie plan the future with Carmen?
I think not, having alawys done things in moderation my liver is able to cope with a small glass of fine Chilean red together with a converstaion on the lighter side of the future.
Charlie, you may join Carmen and myself in Roma if you feel so inclined, I will bring my Zimmer for myself and a comode for you.
Jerry Alivio
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Hello Charles,

Appreciate if you can give me an idea of who is Carmen...hhmm just pretty curious to know...is it Carmen Electra?...

Leadership & Management... for me they are the driver in all aspects in business.

Cheers,

Hi! Carmen,

I am Jerry...;>

Regards
Charleston-Joseph...
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Carmen,

It will not be possible for me and Clive to sit in the same table with you.

We have different strong and leadership personality. Just make deductive reasoning of our post and come up with your own conclusion.

Im not in the alcohol drinking socializing function anymore. After more than 20 years of drinking alcohol, all i got is liver schirosis.

So....

Is it possible that you will drink the beer or any type of alcoholic drink while I will drink only MILK or mineral water.

In this way we can plan and we know what to expect.

Cheers,
Charlie
Carmen Arape
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Charlie and Clive,

I am most interested in meeting both on the same table. But If someone who admires General McArthur can not sit together with someone who’s his dream leader is Margaret Tatcher, I would love having a separate dates with each.

Charlie,

I would love talking with you about leadership in a Man’s world of Construction Project (as you mentioned on post #33) . It is not about woman’s place in this world, It is about understanding the scandal associated to a BP executive who resigned from BP after admitting lying over affair with gay lover. Here, there is an example of 41 years of career in a male business in one of the TOP 3 Oil Companies. Was he a leader ?? being gay.

Cheers,
Carmen
Charleston-Joseph...
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I’m 45 years young,

so you can nominate your second.

and we will let PP know the result.

Cheers,

Charlie
Charleston-Joseph...
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Clive,

Dont mess with Carmen,

She is >>>>>> ehem.

I hope you understand or we will end up with some exercise.

I’m a big fan of Jackie Chan.

Cheers,

Charlie
Oliver Melling
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I think that somewhere in the South of Thailand would be better.

You can make your money go further once you’re there and it could coincide with a full moon party for a little stress relief.

Plus, there would be plenty of lady boys to keep Sensei busy.
Clive Randall
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As a devoted follower

I am more interested in meeting Carmen in Amsterdam, Roma, Paris or Brussels

Given any say in the matter I would prefer Roma in the Spring

Besides I need to go back to throw some cash in the Trevi

A little light relief, some pasta, a good bottle of red wine and an afternoon spent watching the comings and goings on the Spanish steps, seems far more appealing than a critical path or delayed impact anaylsis.

But as Charlie is wont to say, I am but a shadow of my former self. Such, I would add is the truth, but a mighty shadow with many a tune in it I would still add.

Ciao

PS Mr Bodoli needs to attend as does Mr Flowerdew. Bodoli because he appears fluent in Italian and Flowerdew because he seems like a jolly good bloke. Also required is auntie Gwen and the general slappers from Aberdeen.

Just a thought.
Chris Oggham
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Hi Clive,

To answer your question, I would expect a project manager to be able to manage a project (ok a bit trite, I know); not necessarily to be an expert on management theory, but to have a sound working knowledge of management practice. Personally, I think that a knowledge of the theory is also useful, not just for project managers but for anyone in a management position.

Where a knowledge of management theory is essential, is where you try to advance a viewpoint like the one in this thread. If the originator isn’t familiar with management theory, they are going to find their arguments refuted, because they have no basis in fact. When that happens, irespective of how they style themselves, they just end up looking ridiculous.

Chris
Edderic See
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Hi guys,

One question: Is it true that leaders are born or developed? Nature or nurture?

Regards,

Ed
Jerome Atkin
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MEET UP,
In the Damm !!!????

Hey i’m up for tea & Cake & a Smoke !!!?
Brad Lord
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god knows but am sure someone will think of something, cant think of anything worse than a room full of people who do the same job talking about it, its like when you work on a project and there is one planner but 8 commercial people all twiterting on about costs and things

aarrrggghhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
James Barnes
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Brussels has more Michelin starred restos per head of population than any other city in the world, so I’m led to believe. Of course that’s mostly to do with the EU and various lobby groups with nothing better to do than spend OUR tax money on entertainment.

That’s expected to change with Michelin’s first edition guide to Tokyo due out next year.

We also have the best Chips and while I tip my hat to Amsterdam for their toleration of mild substance abuse Eindhoven is a short drive from Bxl and the belgian police are pretty tolerant of imports ;-)

Oh, and Brussels is 2.5 hrs by train from London (less now Paddington is open I think), 1.5 from Paris and 3 from Amdam (until the Thalys gets sorted) so centrally located aswell.

My wife already points and laughs at me when I say I’m on a forum of planners. I have no idea what her reaction would be to me announcing that I was going to a meetup.

What is the collective noun for planners anyway?
Brad Lord
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Carmen

Glad you agree that could all get these issues of there chests or slap each other about, having worked in amsterdam maybe go to some cafe smoke a funny cigarette and everyone can chill out,

he he
Carmen Arape
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Brad,

Excellent idea, the PP get together. Some suggestions came to my MIND:

Where: Few options would be:

A place with tolerance to all sexual orientations: Amsterdam
Place with the best Beer: Brussels
A place with tolerance to use (but not abuse) of drugs consumption: Amsterdam
A place with excellent food: Rome and Paris

PP member with mandatory attendance;
YOU
Clive Randall
Chris Oggham

The above members have posted more than 400 posts

Who is going to pay the bill: The get together would be considered as an expense of the budget from the Successful PM consultant with mandatory attendance.

Cheers
Brad Lord
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i thing there should be a planning planet members get together then you can all meet face to face and share your views on everything and anything , now that would be fun no!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clive Randall
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Chris

Does that beg the question

How can you be a succesful project manager if you dont know even what the management theory is
Chris Oggham
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Charlie,

There aren’t many times you’re right, and this certainly isn’t one of them. In your post #55 you said that you would explain with a hypothetical case, you didn’t do that.

What you did do was mis-state the functions of management, just so there is no mistake I’ll list them for you:

Planning
Organising
Commanding
Coordinating
Controlling
Henri Fayol

Planning
Organising
Leading
Controlling
Louis Allen

You then went on to make a statement that what would separate one from the other in the delivery of projects was leadership. What utter tosh!

In case you hadn’t noticed, Leadership is an integral function of management. Leadership styles vary, some managers are better at it than others, but you have, as always, offered no evidence to support your assertion. In this instance I do not believe that there is any evidence that could be offered. In support of that assertion I offer the following:

Management principles still are the same. It is just that the tools have changed. You still find the right people to do the work and get out of the way so they can do it.

You’ll find it in Gerry Madden’s 100 Rules for NASA Project Managers, it’s rule 3 in the Project Manager section.

Strangely enough he doesn’t have much to say about leadership, the nearest he comes to it is in rule 9 in the same section:

The boss may not know how to do the work but he has to know what he wants. The boss had better find out what he expects and wants if he doesn’t know. A blind leader tends to go in circles.

In other words if the project manager doesn’t understand what is needed, it doesn’t matter how charismatic he is, how many rousing speeches he makes, how gallantly he is prepared to die for his project, the only place he’s going to lead it is right into the toilet.

You then give one of your more ridiculous generalising platitudes about leadership prevailing and making a lot of difference; what, precisely, is it going to prevail against?

Charlie, you really are full of it.

Chris Oggham
Charleston-Joseph...
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Karim,

I agree with you.

NOw the thread can be best explain in hypothical case:

Two manager with the same qualification. Both can be the fundamental function of management: Planning, orgranizing, implementation, control/monitoring.

What will separate the one from the other in delivery of projects.

LEADERSHIP

In conclusion, leadership will prevail and will make a lot of difference.

Cheers,
Sensei
Successful Project Management Consultant
Karim Mounir
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Please all don’t mix biblical stories with Planning planet, it is not the place to discuss such things.

Sexual orientation shouldn’t affect your judgment whether a planner/project manager will do a good job or not, it simply doesn’t has a relationship with the management/leadership issues.

IMHO sexual orientation should be a matter of ethics/morals/culture, it differs from place to another and absolutely shouldn’t be discussed herein.

Racism also defines a person who is narrow minded, ignorant and wrong, We are all human beings.
People should be judged by the contents of their minds (As Dr. Martin Luther King said).
One who believes in supremacy of race against other is mistaken both ethically and scientifically.

Karim
Chris Oggham
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James,

To be honest I think it’s just Charlie’s paranoia that leads him to believe he’s being threatened. As for his attempts to be noticed yes, I suppose you are right they are quite successful. But I would ask, who in their right mind wants to be noticed in the same way that you notice something rather nasty on your shoe?

Chris
James Barnes
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I think he was talking about me Gerome...

Charley darling, I didn’t threaten you. A threat is an if/then statement. I simply stated an (albeit anecdotal) statistic.

I am not a moderator or you would have already heard about it. As such, please feel free to go on spouting your bigotted views in an (I have to admit somewhat successful) attempt to get noticed. Even though I wish you would not.

who were Soddam and Gammorah ... a band?
Chris Oggham
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Charlie,

Surely by now you have realised that your posts have offended a large number of people. Yet far from withdrawing or apologising you have begun trying to moralise and justify your utterances. You whinge and moan that people don’t give you the respect you seem to think is your due, but after the bigoted, vindictive posts that you have made in so many threads, is that surprising?

Clive is absolutely right, real planners are not bigots and respect the opinions and inclinations of others, even if they don’t agree with them. I also agree with Gerome’s sentiments should you ever catch fire.

Chris Oggham
Clive Randall
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There is a large school of thought that Abraham Lincoln was inclined to be shall we say a little stiff around men.
He I presume Charlie you consider to be a great leader. Thomas Jefferson was clearly tempted by the darker fruits of the vine and in his day would have been considered totally unacceptable.

Lincoln was not on his own in the presidential ranks either, Buchanan and King also had a hard time in the locker room.

However I digress Charlie, where ever did you get the idea that being homosexual affects the ability to plan. Are you from the Victorian school of thought that such actions are inherantly depraved, possibly a thought that was beaten into your defencless person by a fanatically frustrated priest.

I have no wish to remember Soddom and as for Gamorah what am I to do.

Charlie in you imitable style you have attemted to lead the shrieking hoardes down this gay bashing trial but I feel the comments are clear, real planners are not biggots and respect the opinions and inclinations of others, even if they dont agree with them.



Jerome Atkin
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Charles,

What I would do is stop looking at everyone like you’re a victim and really have a long had look at yourself as it is not just me who against your views, comments and postings on PP.
I have not threatened you, if you were on fire I would not even p!ss on you to put out the flames. You’re just not worth the time or effort.

Sorry to all the other PP members who is reading this.
Charleston-Joseph...
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And as a parting words to leave this issue and move on the the main issue of this thread: LEADERSHIP

Some leaders of the world today or some royal of the world today may not be able to say this

BUT I HAVE THIS TO SAY:

REMEMBER SODOM AND GOMORRAH

Charleston-Joseph...
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Gerome,

What I’m trying to say is that in Planning Planet, some members were raise not accepting this behaviour.

As you said, in western countries. Is planning planet western countries. Ok we will give the gays there rights but the others also must have there rights.

At the end of the day, it is the moderator that will have the final say of what we post here. Agree with this. OK

I will continue:

threathening a fellow PP member to be zap or remove in PP is the greatest act of cowardice.

cowards are not leaders, WHY THIS MAN IS THREATHENING ME??????, I know the answers because this is not the first time I’m threathen and this is also not the last.

Remember this

It is the brave and daring that shows leadership qualities.

Sensei,
Successful Project Management Consultant
Clive Randall
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Charlie

What can I say that has not already been said about you comments.

Note to self

Words to be studied preferably with a dictionary

1) Tolerance
2) Homo Sapien
3) Tansvestite
James Barnes
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Gerome and Chris; QFT

I had planned to write something too but was left open mouthed at the notion of Homo Sapiens being discriminated against... by who; homo erectus? Neanderthals? The obvious answer is cats, who discriminate against all other species, but they’re not a culture, as such.

Open bigotry is the most common reason given for banning people from forums across the internets. It’s better than closet bigotry I suppose...
Chris Oggham
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Gerome,

I totally agree with your post, I wish I could have put it that well.

Charlie’s views seem to be becoming more extreme, but Planning Planet is not the place for them to be expressed. Charlie complains about a supposed attempt to impose UK standards on other countries, where is this happening then? As far as I can see the only person attempting impose standards is Charlie, and what narrow-minded, bigoted standards they are.

Chris Oggham
Jerome Atkin
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Charles.

Until now I have enjoyed some of your rants and find them sometimes funny.

Your attack on people sexual preferences is out of order.
In my country this is classed the same as being racist and should not be allowed to be posted on PP. You could be arrested for this in some western countries.
It does not matter if you are gay, transvestite, black, white or brown everyone should be treated the same. Even if you are against it they should be left alone.
“In UK, they accept this abnormal behavior, for example SIR ELTON JOHN. And UK standard cannot be imposed on other countries in accepting abnormal behaviour human behaviour.”
Elton John has done more for good causes than you would ever do in your life. Our queen has also knighted him and I find your comment totally out of order.

Personal choices on race, spirituality, gender has nothing to do with leadership or planning so please avoid posting them on this web site.

W@NKER
Charleston-Joseph...
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HI Jerry,

I’m doing fine. How about you??

We do have to look at the past, specially leader (the subject of this post). This is because the present day leaders are not really solving the problems. This is evident in the project they manage at the same time lead. They can be judged past the events that took place, the how, why, etc., etc.,....

With respect to hitting the belt, actually in some culture Homo Sapien or Transvites are not accepted. They are discriminated and this is very true. It is wrong to say the truth here in PP.

In UK, they accept this abnormal behavior, for example SIR ELTON JOHN. And UK standard cannot be imposed on other countries in accepting abnormal behaviour human behaviour.

When I was in Malaysia, I got lost in Jalan Chokit. I saw this girl with skirt, nice body telling me Hi. When I look at her/she/he, she/he got ADAM’s apple. I have to run.

But I was told the story about Sodom and Gomorah, so I cannnot involve with this kind of activities and I always maintain a respectable distance with this kind of people.

It is up to planning planet if I will be remove because I’m telling the truth.

Cheers,

Sensei
Successful Project Management Consultant
Charleston-Joseph...
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Se,

You are entitled to your own opinion. I also agree that he was not a hero as per Philippines textbook.

General Douglas MacArthur is "MY HERO".

I read his bio-graphy "GENERAL DOUGLAS MACARTHUR: THE AMERICAN CAESAR"

It helped me in my college days and early days as professional civil engineer because I wanted to be like him, what he did, his life when he went to West Point, the way he live. He was a bright student, top of his class (Baron, in PMA). He demonstrated bravery in his youth, a born leader. Brilliant

This is what this thread all about: Leadership.

Also this is for the young one, not the young once (the old one should learn that the HERO is in you after all the trials in life).


Please do not make negative statement of "MY HERO".

Cheers,

Sensei
Successful Project Management Consultant
Se de Leon
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McArthur a Philippine hero? I don’t think so. Yes he did promise that he shall return so he did. With McArthur or without McArthur, the Americans will return to the Philippines because the Americans needed to clear the way going to Tokyo and to protect Australia. This is the same reason why they they pulverized first the Japs in Papua New Guinea, Iwo Jima, the Philippines and other small islands and also to minimize as much as possible American casualties. The strategy is not to engage the enemy in front and at the back at the same time.

IMHO,
Se
Clive Randall
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Jerry

By looking at the past we see how not to make the same mistakes in the future

I would suggest this historical analysis is indeed an intrinsic part of planning

However I may be wrong as post #33 appears to indicate you cannot be a planner if you are human.

This would account for the considerable number of monkeys i have seen driving the software.
Jerry Alivio
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Hello Charlie,

How are you, hope your’re doing well. Your Post#33 a bit hitting below the Belt, you know there are some of our Co-members might be hit. Please try to be considerable.

This Forum i think is not meant for History this is meant for today and tomorrow that is why we are called PLANNER.

Regards,

Jerry


Chris Oggham
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Clive,

I was interested in Charlie’s post #33, it seems very confused, but he obviously has a very high opinion of Douglas MacArthur. However, he does seem to think bravery equates to leadership; it does not. A brave leader may be useful in wartime but if he’s more brave than leader he’ll end up getting people killed.

Douglas MacArthur could be cited as just such an example, although I don’t really think so as he didn’t show his face back in the Philippines until Wendell Fertig had all but beaten the Japanese with the guerrilla force he set up.

Charlie then goes on to give some rather confused thoughts on managers and management, apparently believing that you can inherit it. He then goes on to tell us that bravery and leadership are in the genes. Not quite correct, what most people think of as bravery is a reflex conditioned by the situation and training, whilst leadership is one aspect or function of management.

Now we come to the really silly bit where Charlie has a bit of a rant against homosexuals and transvestites, apparently believing that they are incapable of managing, leading or being brave. This shouldn’t come as a surprise, as Charlie regularly discriminates against people because of their race or nationality; but it doesn’t make it acceptable, and if Charlie continues to do this I will make a formal complaint to PP Admin to have him removed permantly from the forum.

Chris Oggham
Clive Randall
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Gerome
It was Hitlers inability to listen that ultimately lead to disaterous decisions in both the battle and manufacturing theatres of war in Germany

He was a good orator and lead by fear.

Again dosent make it into my top 100.
Clive Randall
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Charlie

A point on McArther
It is often quoted that at least one of his promotions came from family influence
When this was published he sued for liable
The case was dropped when his philipino mistress gave his letters to the respondent

I dont trust men who cheat on their wives and gain positions by using family influence, in my mind that does not make them either a leader or a hero.

Put him and Eisenhower together who was president?
Who was removed from his command for continually suggesting nuclear weapons would be a good idea to use in Korea.

Slightly unhinged comments from people who have spent a long time in the sun can be tolearted but rebuking the chain of command is not a viable proposition for a leader.

Still Charlie please continue to idolise this colonial master who runs when the going gets tough, only to return when things are reasonably safe.

The combined use of the air force and army was first tried in the Spanish civil war. The fact that naval forces were not used in the tripartite was due mainly to the theatres that the war was fought in. Their is little doubt that the stategy was formulated by Nimitz as all elemnts were under the control of the navy, marines, navy air force, navy.

McArther merely followed Nimitz

Jerome Atkin
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Hitler,
A scoundrel in history, but also one of the most success full leaders & managers ever in modern history.
Taking away the obvious hurt he imposed and the regime he implemented, he did have both qualities you are all talking about. Even if they were used for the wrong reasons !!!
Charleston-Joseph...
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Clive,

I know you are in your twiligth zone, maybe no need for you to find a hero since now you know that the hero is in you (as per Mariah Carrey song HERO).

I did anoyed me when you say negative about my idol. Just the same, you are free to expoound your ideas and understanding.

But when i was in my teens i read the book GENERAL DOUGLAS MACARTHUR AMERICAN CAESAR. He was my hero. I did strive to be the best, to be the top most. I did not achieve it, a lot of people are better than me.

But, BRAVERY I HAD

and that is also leadership.

YES WE HAVE MANAGER

Are they brave to lead????????????????????

Manager and management theory can be learned, can be acquried by appointment, by political connection, by bribery to get the appointment, or by inheritance,

BUT LEADERHIP and BRAVERY is in the genie, it is through process from childhood to teens to junior position until senior position.

A HOMO as in homo sapien or Transvite as practice by some PP member can be a manager but it can never lead, nor bravery, no and never, it can never lead, specially in the man’s world of construction project.

so Leadership is very important.

Sensei,
Successful Project Management Consultant
Charleston-Joseph...
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IN addition,

General Douglas MacArthur is not an ordinary man. He was born leader.

Is leadership a born trait or can leadership be acquired??!!!

In his comeback trail to liberate Philippines, MacArthur made it a point to know tidal information of islands, this is very important because MacArthur home base was in Port Moresby, Papua New Guineau. And he envision that it will be island hopiing. Also, MacArthur made use of limited resources inventing the theory to TRIPPLE ENVELOPMENT, meaning in amphibious landing of troops, he had to use ground forces, naval forces and the air force. First time it was use considering the coordination of the uniqueness of each.

In one operation somewhere in Papua New Guinea, General MacArthur notice that the insignia of dead Japanese where the Elite Troops that concquer French Indo-China, Malaysia and Singapore. Only MachArthur graps the important meaning of this: the japanes were sending there elit forces and the amirican were decimating the elite japs troops. So the remaining troops that the american will be facing are not good troops.

This is very important in Project Control Management because it is very important to know the factors that influence the project and it is also very important for PCM to mitigate the impact of this factor, eventually the training of succesful PCM will lead effective PROJECT MANAGER.

Leadership translate to bravery and experienced

Charleston-Joseph...
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Clive,

I agree with Ghengi Khan.

But General MacArthur, you are entitled with your opinion.

And I disagree.

MacArthur’s father demonstrated bravery and leadership during the American Civil War and eventually become an American General. General Douglas MacArthur was raise in American Indian Territory. He Graduated at West Point, Top of his class, 1st honor, Baron (as the PMA called the top batchmate or mistah. General Douglas MacArthur demostrated bravery during the American - Mexican War and also during the American adventure in the Philippines during the early 1900.

He was chief of staff of the US Armed Force. During World War II, he was the most senior General in US Armed Forces. It is worthy to note that French Indo-China (present Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia) surrender to the Japs without a fight. Malaysia and Singapore, under the British Empore also surrender without a fight to the Japs.
Only in Philippines where Filipino Guerillas wages a fight to the Death because of the Leadership of General Douglas MacArthur and his promise to Return. "I SHALL RETURN". And the Filipinos did sustain the guerillas warfare believing General MacArthur shall return and Liberate the Philippines from Colonial Powers.

No other French or English General made promise to there colony that they will return with liberation army. So the locals did not wholeheartedly cooperated with there colonial master.

Sensei
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Charleston-Joseph...
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I bet on leadership.

It is the strenth of the leader that makes a lot of difference in the life of people.

I seen a lot of managers without leadership, it cause to much trouble within the work environment.

Leadership at the lower level of project construction are the leadman. This people do not have management skills. But the leadman ability to lead properly will energize his team to be productive.
Charleston-Joseph...
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You can be the best leader with minimal management quality:

For example:

BC: Alexander the Great, Genghis khan

AD: Hie Hitler,General MacArthur, my idol. Martin Luther King

There are a lot of leaders.

In our beloved Planet, of course we have PP Admin, then >>>>>>>>>> let the whole planet vote.

Sensei
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Clive Randall
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Ghengis Khan was not BC he was most certainly AD (1100). I think if you read about him you will see that his ability to lead was in fact based not on fear but on ability. He was also an extraordinary inseminator which results in a huge DNA trail.

Prior to him nobody had succeded in leading the mongols who were nomadic or in conquering huge tracts of asia and eastern europe. He may have been a leader who believed in genocide on a massive scale but he is without doubt a leader who had the ability to create a military system and delegate authority. A good read if you get a chance

McArthur was a truly questionable character, not a leader to be spoken of in the same breath as Alexander of GK. For most of his life he was a failure with success coming at enormous cost to his troops, often ill planned and ill conceived. A person who believed he was a leader more than he actually was.

What I find interesting however is that management and leadership are systems that must exist throughout the organisation. From the PM down to the department managers each of which must inspire and direct down to the workface foreman who must have the same skills. That ability to lead and manage is not solely the territory of those in the biggest office.
Scott Sando
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Yes, the ability to motivate others is an important part of effective leadership.

In his book on Management Teams Belbin found that successful teams contained a member he described as a "Chairman", who would ensure all members of the team contributed rather than allowing one or two members to dominate. It was never explicitly stated, but I inferred, that this Chairman wasn’t necessarily the dominant "leader" in these groups, which suggests (to me) that management of a group and leadership of a group can be separate functions; the inspirational leader creating a vision, and a clever manager maximising participation.
Mehdi Rashidi Ala...
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The biggest difference between managers and leaders is the way they motivate the people who work or follow them, and this sets the tone for most other aspects of what they do.
Jerry Alivio
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Hi! Charles,

Well, the way I look at the current issue "Leadership and Management" we cannot separate the two. Even before the mediaval period; "Once Upon a Time" those great Kings and Queen cannot rule their Kingdom in a proper way without; City Mayor, Tax Collector and maybe Prime Minister.

I can guarantee that this issue, the result will be just like, which comes first the Egg or the Chicken and the conclusion is...KFC...Joking side.

I think we should have enough for this...

See yah..
Oscar Wilde
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Charlie
I write this not meaning to offend and in no way do I subscribe to the activities of the leader
The story is thus
Once upon a time a small austrian decided he wanted to rule a major country he was a good speaker and manipulator of both fear and favour but he was not a manager. However he attracted excellent managers who detailed and recorded their attrocoties.
In this case it can be clearly seen that the two activities are mutually inclusive.
Leadership and management have to go together
I agree with Chris
Chris Oggham
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Hi Charlie,

I’m afraid I have to disagree with you. Leadership is not better than Management, nor is Management better than Leadership they are too closely integrated to make such a comparison.

Earlier in your post #22, you describe the management function as being "Planning, Organizing, Implementing and Control/monitoring", this is pretty much what Louis Allen says namely - Planning, Organising, Leading, Controlling. You then go on to make the point yourself that leadership is effective only when integrated with management, so I really don’t see how you can say that Leadership is better than Management.

Chris Oggham
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi Jerry,

I still bet on Leadership that will make a lot of difference in our life. An effective leader generarlly applies the fundamental of management function: Planning, Organizing, Implementing and Control/monitoring.

An effective leader may not realize that he was using the fundamenatal of management function in achieving goals, however the fact that the leader was effective, it follows that the leader used management function instinctively.

Are we aware that each and everyone of us got leadership instinct that help us save the day and help us also to move forward?

We will start to evaluate ourselves and then we will move forward and come up with the conclusion that LEADERSHIP IS BETTER THAN MANAGEMENT.

Cheers,

charlie

Jerry Alivio
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Hi! Guy’s,

Agree! Integrated Management is a must. Can we make it in General; There will be no Project Big or small without Managementand Leadership. Do you? There must be a "DRIVER".

OOooppsss...;>
Chris Oggham
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Clive,

You’re absolutely right. Management and Leadership should be completely integrated otherwise neither of them works effectively. Management without Leadership becomes manipulation, paper-shuffling and bureaucracy. Leadership without Management becomes self-indulgence and dictatorship.

Charlie made a point that management thoughts change but leadership is always with us, and that’s true to a certain extent, but management thoughts aren’t management. At its simplest, management is making sure that the people you’re managing have the resources and support they need to do the job, then getting the hell out of the way so they can get on and do it. For that to be truly effective, though, someone has to show them a vision, an inspiration and an example, which is where leadership comes in.

Management and leadership both are essential to maximise success.

Chris