Forum Sponsor:

Portfolio Planner is software which improves portfolio, project and resource management.

Tips on using this forum..

(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?

(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.

How Planners Should Interact with Project Teams

44 replies [Last post]
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 8 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Anyone with answer to this.............

"There is another type of ignorance which I define the basic knowledge to proper interact with other team members. To acquire this knowledge is a matter of more time, I should say minimum 3 years in order to understand the work process of all disciplines working in a project.
Until today, when I am planning a work that I have not seem before, It takes me time to do some research in order to properly communicate with the specialist."

Only us can help each other.

Sensei
Successful Project Management Consultant

Replies

Clive Randall
User offline. Last seen 12 years 15 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 744
Groups: None
of the envelope
cutting
cliff

who knows
Gwen Blair
User offline. Last seen 6 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Posts: 182
I am too embarressed to state that the dry dock slot os 1st March 08. NOT!

To the edge?
Clive Randall
User offline. Last seen 12 years 15 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 744
Groups: None
oooh I just love it when you talk dirty about your topsides

and as for mooring and gubbings it drives me to the edge of control, or should that be project controls??

News from sweaty would be appreacited.
And on that note Carmen should be included in your team of seagulls due to her love of the fine malt.
Gwen Blair
User offline. Last seen 6 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Posts: 182
Clive,

I have been out slaying dragons in Dubya. Got Norske project to sanction, got punted (easy target as I was the commuter and a woman and WORSE lippy) then on the back of that the rest of the Planning Team resigned within 4 days. What a great send off present!
Still as one door closes 5 others open and I am now on site. Company paying for me living in 4 star accommodation so 3 month lease ties and pay and organise the flights. They also pick me up and drop me off. Bliss! Await the sailaway date next week then its Hull asssessment (currently en route from China me ole China), slap on Topsides modules, utilities, mooring, accomodation, gubbings etc.
Must rescusitate The Book and find out where Sweaty Betty is.
Some things change but not others!!!
Thanks for the laughs!!
Gwen Blair
User offline. Last seen 6 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Posts: 182
Clive,

I have been out slaying dragons in Dubya. Got Norske project to sanction, got punted (easy target as I was the commuter and a woman and WORSE lippy) then on the back of that the rest of the Planning Team resigned within 4 days. What a great send off present!
Still as one door closes 5 others open and I am now on site. Company paying for me living in 4 star accommodation so 3 month lease ties and pay and organise the flights. They also pick me up and drop me off. Bliss! Await the sailaway date next week then its Hull asssessment (currently en route from China me ole China), slap on Topsides modules, utilities, mooring, accomodation, gubbings etc.
Must rescusitate The Book and find out where Sweaty Betty is.
Some things change but not others!!!
Thanks for the laughs!!
Clive Randall
User offline. Last seen 12 years 15 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 744
Groups: None
Gwen my dear how are you
Where have you been??

Now Charlie, it is not suprising that when you were in oil and gas people starred at you

I understand that in O&G they do not tolerate fools as they have a habit of getting everybody into the stuff that hits the fan.

Having said that my own take on this is that planning is about the ability to think. For example is it neccessary to really know the difference between wft and dft or for that matter what a micron is. I would suggest not, but it is important to know what type of paint you are using the preparation method (possibly swedish) and the drying times considering ambient conditions together with humidity issues. Now you will probably be able to find a hairy person with a spray gun who will know all this and will probably be very willing to tell you if you have a bit of humility. If you steam in their with a level of arrogance you could well find you laptop pushed up your reverse lap.

Many years ago when computers were but a twinkle in most engineers eyes I worked on a road project. As I travelled through the cutting I saw the drainage profiles waving around in the wind. A small Irishman leapt out in front of me and said that the engineer responsible for this setting out should be nailed by his baby maker to a tree. The graduate who he reffered to had blindly followed the computer printout and had all the drainage falling in level to the middle of the cutting. Even presented with the basic principles of hydraulics he refused to accept he was wrong, and I had serious concerns regarding his future ability to raise a family. It turned out that a clerk had inserted a minus in the calcs rather than a plus. Common sense however should never have allowed the graduate to make the error that so threatened his future family.

It has troubled me for some time how we should interact with the team. If we dictate we will go unheard, however if say nothing because everybody is too busy we fail once again. For me it is important to set the strategy and then consult, substatiate and change. If you can achieve initial consensus then the next step is to build on that consensus. To barrel in to the PMs office, whipping out your degree and reading the sermon according to PMBOK or P3 will not win you freinds and that to me, that winning of freinds is important. It dosent really matter if the programme is 100% right as long as the team have bought into it. If it goes wrong they will assist and not just blame the planner.

However we must be the chameleon to the project manager, play to his weaknesses without identifying them to him, be his shoulder to cry on, but not just the pm all the tech team and site staff. Then our programme becomes their programme and has a real life, that takes humility on our part but also understanding. For me, I have never found a man that was not willing to tell you about his job, getting him to stop, much harder.

YES CHARLIE EVEN THE LABOURERS KNOW SOMETHING, EVEN IF ITS THE ODDS ON THE 3.30 AT DONCASTER.

Mohamed Thabet
User offline. Last seen 9 years 11 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 55
Groups: None
Thanks Gordon, that english native speakers thing is not a big deal, for me at least.
The main point of communicating is to make yourself clear for others, if you trying to speak slangs, its not our problem if we did not get what you trying to say.

Its a problem with Message Encoding Not Decoding (if that makes sense anyways)

Cheers,
Oliver Melling
User offline. Last seen 27 weeks 4 days ago. Offline
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 595
Groups: The GrapeVine
Charlie,

If your jelousy of native english speakers bothers you so

much, i can get you a job here on more money!


..... I could do with a new gardener, the back lawn is just

too large and the grass is very unruly.


I plays havoc with my croquet matches!
Gwen Blair
User offline. Last seen 6 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Posts: 182
Speaking as an Engish speaking Expatriate Scot, I will happily take any sunshine the English have left over, any place any time. Bring it on!

Scots Wa Hae!
Gordon Blair
User offline. Last seen 2 years 9 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 166
Groups: None
Mohamed,

No need to apologise, as far as I can tell, nobody had a problem with your post, it seems a perfectly reasonable summary of the benefits of having a proactive Planner.

Charlie,

You do realise that your tirade’s could come across as ... well, perhaps a little racist?..

Not having a go, just friendly advice

Cheers,

Gordon
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 8 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Mohamed,

You dont have to be sorry just because some native born english misunderstood the english language.

You know these english AxxHyyes, they never change still dreaming that "the sun dont rest in the lost empire. So anyone not native born english speaker are lowly and should not share independent views.

You did the right things.

The PP world know.

Cheers
Mohamed Thabet
User offline. Last seen 9 years 11 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 55
Groups: None
Sorry guys, seem my reply was out of context, dint check previous comments but the topic inspired me :D

Cheers,
Gwen Blair
User offline. Last seen 6 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Posts: 182
3Fs? 4Fs? You would mention that sort of thing on this project without running FAST!
Gwen Blair
User offline. Last seen 6 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Posts: 182
3Fs? 4Fs? You would mention that sort of thing on this project without running FAST!
Chris Oggham
User offline. Last seen 5 years 14 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 605
Groups: None
Mohamed,

I don’t know whether you noticed this or not, but there was absolutely nothing in Charlie’s post about setting the example to the team by doing your job well. Nor did he mention anything about keeping your competences relevant and up-to-date. As for Charlie’s book choices, rather you than me.

Chris Oggham
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 8 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
The author of the book: The Power of Positive Thinking is Norman Vincent Peal.

My apology
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 8 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Mohamed,

I agree with your.

Sometimes planning engineers should be "cute" to other project team members.

My preference is the 3 F: Friendly, Fair and Firm.

Friendliness to the whole project team will bring rewards at times when both needs each project team cooperations. I suggest to read the book: HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE by Dale Carnegie a classic book.

Fairness to the people we interact will bring respect and professionalism to the whole project team. I will enchance confidence building among team members. I suggest the book: The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Peal also a classic book.

Firmness will command respect among boss and subordinate alike. Only the bravery can do this because other will be diverted to politics. This is also the hallmark of leadership that is lacking from managers. I suggest to read the book: General Douglass MacArthur The American Ceasar.

Cheers,
Sensei
Successful Project Management Consultant
Mohamed Thabet
User offline. Last seen 9 years 11 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 55
Groups: None
Hi everyone,

The main role for Planners is to coordinate with everyone in the project (project team members & other stakeholders) to produce a project plan which all team will be committed to. (Plan buy in)

As the project is in progress, the planner will be the project bird’s eye, he will highlight the potential risks before it becomes delays, & for excusable delays he should be able to assist the project team in brining the project back to track or to justify extension of time.

In projects close out, the planner keeping the whole history of the project will be able to assist the project team in developping the lessons learned for the project, which will be the basis for planning new projects.


Regards,
Karim Mounir
User offline. Last seen 5 years 34 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 5 Apr 2006
Posts: 314
Groups: None
ooooh, cr@p
thanks Brad
Robert Foedisch
User offline. Last seen 8 years 44 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 7 Nov 2004
Posts: 34
Groups: None
Skan,

I will attempt to answer you question as best I can.
1) Planners produce a plan. with the help of their customers input and other planners. project managers develop a schedule for the specific projects the plan has created. For an example a Planner may develop a plan for a waste water treatment plant. project managers will develop a schedule for the pipe lines to be laid, a schedule for settling tanks to be constructed.

2) By they I think you are referring to planners. The answer is yes, They need to consult with the project managers to get an idea of timelines and specific tasks involveed so well founded plans can be created.

3) See question 2

4) This is tru more so for the project manager than the planner. The planner deals more directly with the customer and is trying to solve the customers problems.

5) planners generally develop plans with several things in mind. 1 what does the customer want. 2 what at the nature of the problems involved: logistical, computerized, engineering, geographical etc.

6) All good plans must be tested and assessed before impletation. and after 6 months they should be reassessed

I whole hearted agree with your statement about planners
Skan Bu
User offline. Last seen 9 years 26 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 118
Groups: None
Hi,

Interesting discussion and some very protective people contributing.

Can anyone clarify:
1) How do planner produce their plan or schedule or programme?

2) Do they need to speak with the people who are actually doing the work?

3) Do they need to obtain the sequence of activities for the particular project?

4) Do they need information from the person who actually manage/supervise the work?

5) Do they base their planning on the assumption made?eg productivities, labour force, machinery used & environment conditions

6) What happen if the assupmtion made do not tally with the resources available at operation stage whn opertaion commence?

Finally, to answer the initial question posted:
In my opinion is , the planner should be a good listener, have a clear and logical thinking, able to comprehen & digest the information provided, good communicator with all levels(acadamic and elliterate), understand how best to utilise the resources to achieve maximum/efficient effect, able to communicate clearly and concisely in verbal or graphic to the relevent person. He/she should not think too highly of him/her self but willing to accept others opinions and suggestion. Give useful suggestion or prompt to those underprevilage.

I do not think that only Engineers can do the above function but I valued that those with experiences are probably the best equipted to carry out this function.

Robert Foedisch
User offline. Last seen 8 years 44 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 7 Nov 2004
Posts: 34
Groups: None
Brad,
I agree Planning and engineering are two totaly different areas. I have known engineers who could not plan their way to the front door of a house to go for a walk. Likewise I have known planners who had a hard time designing a way to tie their shoes
Brad Lord
User offline. Last seen 5 years 43 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 256
Groups: None
chris

what i am trying to say is am sick of hearing all this crap about having to be an engineer, you know what it is like over here there are so many industries to work in and i have worked in most of them project controls is project controls blah blah blah, your right though i do cut out the crap i think it is an integral part of the job (especially as a contractor) how is sunny london

regards

brad
Chris Oggham
User offline. Last seen 5 years 14 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 605
Groups: None
Hi Brad,

I just read through your last three posts and while I can’t say I agree with everything you’ve written, I’ve got to admit you do know where to put the knife when it comes to cutting through the cr@p.

Chris Oggham
Brad Lord
User offline. Last seen 5 years 43 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 256
Groups: None
ooooh
Karim Mounir
User offline. Last seen 5 years 34 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 5 Apr 2006
Posts: 314
Groups: None
Brad, take a look at this ;-)

Acronym      Definition
XP      Experience (Microsoft Windows XP)
XP     Chi Rho (Christian youth organization)
XP     Christus (Latin: Christ, epigraphy)
XP     Cross Polarization
XP     Cross-Platform
XP     Crosspoint (FidoNet Point software)
XP     Expansion Pack
XP     Experian (credit reporting agency)
XP     Experience Points
XP     Experimental Prototype
XP     Explosion Proof
XP     Extended Platform
XP     Extended Play
XP     Extended Stored Procedure (Microsoft SQL Server)
XP     Extra Performance (AMD Athlon XP+)
XP     Extreme Performance (AMD Athlon processor)
XP     Extreme Programming
XP     Microsoft Windows XP (operating system)
XP     Plans and Programs (USAF)
XP     Symbol or monogram for Christ or Christianity (from X and P, the first two letters of the Greek word for Christ)
XP     Xanthogranulomatous Pyelonephritis
XP     Xeroderma Pigmentosum
XP     Xperience
XP     Xtreme Prejudice (gaming clan)

and btw if you want how to deal with IT plans whilst you don’t poses an engineering degree, kindly refer to the older posts in this thread (especially #9, 10).
Brad Lord
User offline. Last seen 5 years 43 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 256
Groups: None
For a start XP is a windows operating system would not expect a foreman (who dont usually know what a computer is for) or supervisor to be using an operating system let alone a planner,

Not everyone is cut out to be a planner which why we all do different jobs, i am bored about hearing people go on about engineering degree, how would you plan out an IT Software Development project with your engineering degree?????

btw have one o’level

Karim Mounir
User offline. Last seen 5 years 34 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 5 Apr 2006
Posts: 314
Groups: None
Do the planner with 2 years of XP knows the job better than a foreman or supervisor who has been doing the same work for more than 10 years?.
If the foreman or supervisor has the guts to learn how to deal with planning software and attend some courses then he can do it better than the youngster engineer.

A foreman or supervisor can read the drawings, communicate better, and understand scope of work.
For me, I haven’t met with an office-stayed planner better than a site planner because simply site visits are not enough to learn from.

btw, I have a civil engineering degree.

Karim
Brad Lord
User offline. Last seen 5 years 43 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 256
Groups: None
what a load of bollocks, if you are a mech engineer you wil not understand electrical engineering, and visa versa, which is why you have different disciplines, the role of the planner is to understand the scope of work, create wbs, engage with all engineers/pm’s/sub contractors etc to pull togeter a detailed plan, why do you assume everyone is on site, most engineering projects are office based with site visits, i have met/worked with engineers whom do planning and they think they know it all, well got news you for they dont, anyway hope that helps

Karim Mounir
User offline. Last seen 5 years 34 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 5 Apr 2006
Posts: 314
Groups: None
Is it mandatory that every planner who has an engineering degree will produce good plans for granted?
And on the contrary a planner with no engineering degree will always fail the project and produce meaningless plans?

Not necessarily at all.

Even if the planner poses an engineering degree, he must learn from the site how the job is done and often he has to learn this from the site foremen or supervisors (in addition of course to the site engineers).
It may take some time for someone who doesn’t hold an engineering degree but I’m certain that it can be done.

Karim
James Barnes
User offline. Last seen 8 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 6 Sep 2007
Posts: 241
Charlie

I too received the "what are you planning for if you dont know what we are doing?" approach when I first started in oil and gas. It really made me not want to ask questions, when that was the only way I would learn!

Don’t be put off by this attitude, if you do understand the works and equipment then the attutude becomes "you think you can do it better than me, who are you to tell me how to do my job?" There’s no winning by tackling this head on, really

It takes a while to develop the correct filters to enable you to shrug this sort of rubbish off. Mostly it’s just people who don’t want to get involved in the planning effort for their own reasons.

Despite some acute political problems where I work (mostly revolving around a perceived need for job protection), I much prefer oil and gas to Commercial developement, which is where I was before. Despite the prejudice against people from outside the industry (if you haven’t got 50 years in oil and gas and you don’t eat oil rigs for breakfast then you don’t know anything etc etc) they actually take the job seriously, consider safety paramount and really appreciate the benefits of finishing on time, things that I found very lacking in commercial developement.

I like the analogy of the planner as a nucleus, although I’d probably use the word nexus. We collect, process, order and rearrange information (inputs from all engaged parties) into a coordinated whole (the plan)
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 8 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Hello to all,

I do appreciate that now you speak out.

Thank you, Thank you.

In oil and gas, It is very important to have engineering qualification to be effective planning engineer.

I’m a civil engineer with adventures in oil and gas. I only appreciated the civil portion of planning in the oil and gas industry. I found it difficult to interact with other specialist: mechanical, electrical, instrucmentation, etc for the simple reason that they are staring at me everytime I ask question sending signal like "what are you planning for if you dont know what we are doing? It was really hummiliating for me.

Now, I’m happy working in Building Works, Civil/infrastructure.

Rav B
User offline. Last seen 4 days 2 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 1027
It all depends on the attitude.

As datta and James had said, you need to have knowledge of various areas of project management to become an EFFECTIVE planning Engineer.

Planning Engineer is basically the NUCLEUS of the project with information flowing in and flowing out from this department. If he is having any deficit in knowledge in any of the areas, then he is definitely going to struggle.

Chris, people like you are rare and may fit more into IT projects rather than hard-core construction projects involving civil, hydraulics, mechanical, electrical and instrumentation works.

Planning Engineers must have an engineers qualification to get into the things more swiftly rather than learning various levels and subjects each and every time.

Cheers,

Rav
DATTATREYA PADHARTHI
User offline. Last seen 1 year 17 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 90
Hi Chris,

You have absolutely correct on this, You seem have gained enough exposure/experience retrofitting "SUB’s" and thereby raising your profile. No doubts about that experience & you know the ins & out of the work flow.

Site exposure is really worth & i presume all planners have a desire of raising their level to a Project Coordinator or a Proj Manager to be more effective. This is where your engg background or your real experience of construction helps.
As a Construction Manager, it may not matter whether u have a degree or not as long as u have requisite experience, but being a Project Manager/Coordinator does require knowledge of design.
As long as one is happy with planning & only planning, non engg background "may or may not" matter, but definetly for a higher level of job function, it does matter.

Cheers
datta
James Barnes
User offline. Last seen 8 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 6 Sep 2007
Posts: 241
I believe that a planner fulfills a co-ordination role, thus he or she needs to communicate with all disciplines executing a project. Of course this will vary depending on the project but for a typical construction case it might include knowledge of (in no particular order);

Trades.
Engineering.
Cost control.
Procurement.
Contract administration.
Safety.

There are several overlaps in the above, especially in the administration disciplines.

The level of knowledge needs to me that which enables the planner to fully discuss the works with each specialist, give meaningful input (and not get bullsh1tted!) A cetrtain "mechanical sympathy" will enable the planner to fill gaps in their knowledge quickly.

A construction based engineering degree (I have a BEng in civils) covers most of the above in varying depth. Site exposure (I have 15 years PM exp) is worth 1,000 times more.

Given the choice between a fresh graduate from a 4 year civils course and a nongraduate with 4 years site exp, I would consider my choice very carefully.

And Chris, you know Charlie is winding you up. I love the fact that he uses the Phillipines as an object lesson in how to plan works.
Chris Oggham
User offline. Last seen 5 years 14 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 605
Groups: None
Hi Datta,

You are absolutely correct, my work now is predominantly in IT, but it wasn’t always like that, my first planning job was a refit for a submarine. Despite the fact that I didn’t have an engineering degree, the refit finished on time and the vessel was back on station when it should have been.

Ideally, what you want is someone with an appropriate qualification who can do the work. If it comes down to a choice, though, between someone with the qualification and someone who can do the work, which are you going to choose?

Chris Oggham
DATTATREYA PADHARTHI
User offline. Last seen 1 year 17 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 90
Nicely Said Chris,

But looking into your profile , it seems that u are on the planning side of IT Projects which is entirely different from Oil/Gas/Petrochem/Metallurgy/Building Projects where one needs basic engineering "bent of mind".
If one considers planning as drawings lines (duration) with logics as informed by disciplines, then its different planning.
I can say for sure that Planners with Engineering background or experience are better equipped to plan.

I am from India (Commonwealth country) & from one of the top consultancies & where only Engrs that too from Top institutes were selected for all Engg Jobs including Planning.

Cheers
Datta
Chris Oggham
User offline. Last seen 5 years 14 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 605
Groups: None
Hi Guys,

As we can see from his last post Charlie has let his usual ignorance and bigotry blind him to the facts.

According to Charlie in order to be a planner you have to have an engineering degree, what rubbish! I don’t have an engineering degree, yet I have been planning successfully for more years than I care to remember.

Again according to Charlie, America is the number 1 country because they take project management seriously by staffing it with engineers. Charlie, you take project management seriously by staffing it with people who can do the work to time, cost and quality, just as you’d expect from a contractor engaged to carry out work for you. So it doesn’t matter whether they have formal qualifications or not.

Charlie then goes on to say that in the UK, Commonwealth or British influenced countries this is not the case and because of this projects are delayed. Has Charlie ever worked in any of the countries he has vilified? No! So there we have it gentlemen, proof from Charlie himself that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Chris Oggham

Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 8 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Hi Robert,

I agree with you, and we also follow the American way of doing things, so in Philippines, we accept Planning Engineer with Bachelors Degree in Engineering.

At least that makes America the no. 1 countries because they take project management very seriously by staffing with engineers.

In UK and commonwealth countries or British influence countries, this is not the case.

and we know why projects are delayeddddddddd.

Cheers
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 8 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Hi Guys,

I waited for you so long to come up with this voice.

I got blugeoned by some Senior "DAW" planners from UK and englishmen that labourers can do planning enngineering job, housewives can do engineering job.

I agree with Robert and Daya

PLANNING ENGINEEERS SHOULD HAVE BACHELOR’S DEGREE.

At least, at the end of the day, I’m justified.

I think it is only in commonwealth countries that labourers are accepted as planning. But look at the way they are doing projects...... TOO MUCH DELAYYYYYYYSSSS!!!!!

I heard UK based plumbers, carpenters, etc. are managers

OHHHHHH ..............

Cheers,

Charlie
DATTATREYA PADHARTHI
User offline. Last seen 1 year 17 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 90
Robert,

Thats what I was exactly pointing. Planning Engrs should not be different i.e they should having engineering background. Sadly in many places, you will find thats not the case.
Again, top companies will not fire a Planning engr without an engg background.
There is a similar view on Cost engineers, commercial background of eng background.
In many companies its a misnomer, Cost Controls with commercial background. But when it comes to Cost estimation, i have no doubt that he/she should have an engg background as its more technical than anything else.

Cheers

David Watters
User offline. Last seen 3 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 5
When I accept a new planning engineer to my team, I tend to look for someone with a engineering background, or scientific, as these are essentially problem based discipines, the same as Project Planning. I’m not too picky though.

If they have a sharp mind, and know how to handle "people", the rest falls into place surprinsingly quickly.
Robert Foedisch
User offline. Last seen 8 years 44 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 7 Nov 2004
Posts: 34
Groups: None
I dont think the Americam Planning association would agree with your definition of planners. Most Planners here are degreedwith a bachelors or masters degree in Urban planning.
DATTATREYA PADHARTHI
User offline. Last seen 1 year 17 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 90
Charles,
Normally Planners are qualified engineers i.e they do have the "engineering bent of mind" to understand the entire project.
My view is "before discussing/interacting with any discipline specialist, one should have basic knowledge of the Job/Scope/Work Processes & a bit of technical?.
There is a remarkable difference between "Information" & "Knowledge" which a planner should understand. If a planner sticks to "Information", he will always fall behind, if he seeks knowledge then over a period of time there is no reason why a planner shouldn’t effectively interact with specialists.
Get involed in Project issues both technical & commercial & always be inquisitive for every unknown issue.
Cheers