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Resource Planning

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Siva Kumar
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Hi all,

After Completing the Activity scheduling,when we look into resource/resource team planning..like moving a team or gang sequencially along particular phases or sector..

which is best suited..WBS or Activity codes??


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mimoune djouallah
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Two years later and I am still clueless about resource leveling, could you please enlighten me if in P6, it is possible to automatically change durations just to honor resource availability

Rodel Marasigan
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Anoon,
When binding to a contract, a milestone is set and it may link to LD for most of the cases. This is why activity calendar is first to meet the milestone. If activity calendar is not visible due to resource restriction then it should be brought up to the client to approve the new milestone date. If client insist the original milestone, the contractor or PM will now decide and re-do the resource planning to meet the milestone for as far as he can get. That is why more resources are coming from overseas.
I hope this answer you question.
Anoon,
calendars show when the work can be done. It does not make sense to ignore non-working periods.
I see the problem if our approved schedule is unrealistic.

Yes, Spider Project can handle limited resources for huge projects, programs, portfolios.

Best Regards,
Vladimir
Anoon Iimos
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Hi Rodel,

Yes, but I mean considering calendars of limited resources (no consideration of unlimited resources - as where your activity calendars were supposed to have been derived).

Meaning you got to decide between your activity calendar and resource calendar knowing that if you use resource calendar, your schedule (duration) will certainly extend, therefore creating further problems.

I supposed Vladimir’s Spider was designed to handle limited resources on large scales projects?

Best regards
Hi Anoon,
the Client dictates the requirements and can reject the schedule that was submitted if it does not comply with the requirements.

In Spider Project the work can be done during those periods that are working in both activity and resource calendars.
Activity calendar set restrictions on activity execution (like only on Summer, or during the day time), resource calendar defines the work time of the resource. It does not matter which one is first.

Vladimir
Rodel Marasigan
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Anoon,
In general practice Activity calendar first. It will give you the full duration of the job. Resource calendar will take place if the delay occurs where you need to plan your resource to catch up the delays. This is where the PM decides to have 2 shift or accelerations of resources. This will depends on working area, safety & environmental issues and risk management. If the area is too crowded for increasing the resource productivity will become an issue including safety and risk that is why shifting of works are considered. While considering the shifting, safety, environmental and risk is again analyzed if the area is recommended for double or triple shifts. Again if not possible then working extra hour maybe appropriate.
Is that making sense?
Anoon Iimos
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Hi Vladimir,

"And usually the Contrator shall submit resource loaded schedule in the certain period (like 30 days) after the contract was awarded." And I may add, for Client/Owner’s approval (or record only?)?

The question here is, Can the Client dictate the "resource planning" of the Contractor based on its methodology (if ever the Client don’t like or does not approve the schedule)?

Hi Rodel,

"Activity first" - so which calendar governs (in case of conflicts), activity calendar or resource calendar?

Best regards
Rodel Marasigan
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Anoon,
If you read my post #63, it clearly stated that activity first before the resources for most of the projects.
1) When preparing a schedule for a bid documents, resources are on summary level on the schedule because the detail task was not yet created as per construction methodology but the schedule represent the whole scope in the contract.
2) Once the project is commencing or awarded, the PM will resource the project with the help of planner, estimator and HR. The planner will breakdown the schedule into manageable detail and start resource planning with the help of construction manager based on construction methodology and submit to PM for approval.
Hope this answer you question.
Is it first place or not, but these requirements are not rare. And usually the Contrator shall submit resource loaded schedule in the certain period (like 30 days) after the contract was awarded.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Anoon Iimos
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Hi Vladimir,

I supposed when the Client/Owner accepts the Contractor, that means that the Contractor is qualified for the job.

And I don’t believe that the ability to prepare a proper schedule (resource loaded), is one of the basis for Contractor’s pre-qualification (maybe), but I supposed they are not counting on that in the first place.

The Client/Owner will give the Scope and the specifications (in general), but would they dictate about the methods of the Contractor?

Best regards



Yes,
For Client/Owner resources may be Contractors, main Materials and Equipment, but the Client may require from the Contractor to submit the resource loaded schedule with certain WBS and level of details. It is required because the Client wants to be sure that the Contractor understands the job, plans it properly, and have sufficient resources to finish it on time. It may be used for the control if the quantity of resources on site is sufficient.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Anoon,
I will answer basing on Spider Project functionality but will omit the usage of typical fragment library. We shall discuss it later.
1. Start with the results WBS. Work packages in this WBS mean achieving some small result.
2, Decompose work packages creating project activities (describe actions that shall be done to achieve corresponding results.
3. Link activities of work packages and then enter links between activities of different work packages. Add and link milestones.
4. Enter activity types - some of them are duration driven, but for most their durations are defined by the quantity of work and assigned resource productivities. Enter activity types.
5. For duration driven activities enter expected durations, for others enter the volumes (quantities) of work to be done.
6. If absent, create a list of project resources and enter their quantities.
7. Define activity and resource calendars. Activity calendar defines the periods when it can be performed. Resource calendar defines resource work periods. Activity can be performed only when the time is working for all calendars - activity can be performed and assigned resources are available.
8. Create crews - groups of resources necessary for doing the work on different activity types. We call these groups multi-resources.
9. Assign crews (it means assigning all crew resources). If resources shall work only together they belong to the same team. If resources can work independently assign them as the separate team.
10. Enter productivities of assigned resources for those activities whose duration is defined by work quantities.
11. Create a list of materials.
12. Assign materials to activities and resources (fixed quantities, or quantities per hour, or work volume units).
13. If materials are restrited create the supply schedule (when and what material quantities will become available).
14. Now you are ready for scheduling.

The better way for creating schedule model - use typical fragment library and corporate reference-books. But this is Spider Project specific.

Let’s return to calendars.
There are separate activity calendars (when activity can be performed), resource calendars (resource work time), and dependency calendars (applied to dependency lags).
Activity will be performed at periods when the time is working for both activity and all resources assigned in the same team.
If resources do not belong to the same crew and can work on activity independently then they shall be assigned as different teams.

Best Regards,
Vladimir
Anoon Iimos
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Vladimir,

Re:"The Client/Owner define the requirements to the project schedule, Contractor developes the schedule."

What do you mean by requirements? Up to what level of specifics (generally)?

Please don’t say, depending on the contract.

I supposed "Resource(s)" for the Client/Owner will be the Contractor, Permanent Materials and Permanent Equipment.

How does "Resource Planning" for a Time Schedule relates or affects the Client/Owner?

Best regards
Anoon Iimos
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Hi Vladimir,

"Activities are planned first" - What’s the consideration here? Highest priority (meaning Activities sequencing will drive the schedule - first)?

"The schedule shall respect all constraints - activity sequencing, resource availability, Calendars, everything."

Order (I’ll limit to three):

1. Activity(s) sequencing
2. Resource Availability
3. Calendars - (might involve both Activity and Resource)

For number 3, which one should be considered first, Activity Calendar or Resource Calendar?

You might say that it will depend if your Schedule is Task Dependent or Resource Dependent, but please remember, "Activities are planned first".

Hi Mike,

Would you mind answering with substance?

Best regards

Mike Testro
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Hi Vladimir

Precisely.

Best regards

Mike Testro.
Hi Anoon,
activities require resources to performed.
Activities are planned first - you shall decide what to do first and then who will do what.
If necessary resources are not available activity performance will be delayed.
The Client/Owner define the requirements to the project schedule, Contractor developes the schedule.
The schedule shall respect all constraints - activity sequencing, resource availability, Calendars, everything.

Best Regards,
Vladimir
Anoon Iimos
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Happy Easter to All,

Question(s):

Activity Requirements vs. Resource Requirements

or Activity Planning vs. Resource Planning

1. Which comes first?

2. How is it related or what is the relationship between activity and resource?

3. Who’s responsibility is what? or i.e. Who is the primary responsible to prepare the Activities (Work Packages / Milestones) and/or Resources? The Client/Owner or the Contractor?

4. What is most important? Activity sequencing? or Availability of limited Resources (including Calendars, other Constraints)?

Please answer by instinct without considering any form of Contract.

Thanks
When the project is late the Owner usually looses more.
To have early warnings if there are problems is necessary. The lack of resources on site is one of these warnings. It is better to know resource requirements than blindly believe contractors.
Trevor Rabey
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"So why the Client should bother about how many tilers the Contractor is supposed to assign?" because if he doesn’t bother about it, either making sure that the contractor has it figured out, or doing it himself, then his project will be late.
If it turns out that the client has not done it, often the contractor doesn’t do it, because he can’t, then no one has done it.
The client can want and wish or hope for anything he likes, but he won’t get it unless someone figures it out.
You may think that this doesn’t happen, that the client just leaves it to the contractor, and the contractor doesn’t do it, and the client never properly investigates to discover it. But it does happen, Ive seen it.
Anoon Iimos
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Trevor,

I supposed the Client or Owner is not "dictating durations", but I believe they are guessing durations and let the Contractors validate that guess.

So why the Client should bother about how many tilers the Contractor is supposed to assign? When all the Client wants is a Tile this much, and to be finished or delivered on this time?

All the rest, you can refer to the Contract.

Trevor Rabey
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Mimoune,
I am with Vladimir on this one.
If you simply dictate some durations and then say that it is the contractor’s problem to manage his resources, you can be sure that his problems will become your problems.
If you don’t bother to work out that it takes 17 tilers to lay the tiles in 20 days, how will you know that he knows how to manage that, and how will you know that if he turns up with 3 tilers every day the task will be late? When will you know? You won’t know until day 20 has gone by. Of course you can sue him but that won’t get your project back on schedule and 20 days has gone, never to return.
Anoon Iimos
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All,

IMHO, the Owner or Client has nothing to do with "Resource Planning", - the Client’s resource is the Contractor.

"Resource Planning" is the contractor’s problem depending on his/her methodology and as long as it is in compliance with the requirements.

mimoune djouallah
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Vladimir

i can’t disagree with you ;) i want just to say that planner who worked before as supervisor or in generally worked as contractor (the guy who really do the work in site) are very aware about the importance of resource leveling, i think it is very obvious, work completion depend on resource deployed.

Anoon.

we level at level 3 (it may be level 4 for other definitions); work package, let’s say compressor foundation for civil we put only two activities excavation, and concrete work, ( notice here concrete work is reinforced concrete, the steps , re-bars, formworks, pouring, foundations protection are considered for assessment of progress but not for planning)

now we assign resource concrete work with a unite rate of say 10 m3/day and the total quantity 500 m3 ( notice here it is equivalent quantity, concrete + rebards)
we do the same for all the packages.

we assign a normal and max usage for the resource, and schedule and level.

once we have the durations, now the hard part, the contractor must level his resources to respect those durations, he may further develop a more detailed programs ( put the real activities rebars, formwork, pouring with real resources labor, batching plant..), or use traditional method, ask field supervisors how each one need labors and equipment to finish the package in time, it is very interesting experience to see supervisors fight over resources (actually i attended a real fight about that;)

best regards
Rodel Marasigan
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Anoon,
Majority of the company that I work with are having this practice. When the company submit a bid having a schedule of level 2 or 3 resourced and cost loaded as required. This will include critical path, identified risk, S-curved and histogram but management level. Meaning the resources are not breakdown as detailed but showing the total number of workforce from start to peak to finish.
When Project start the planner start to derive the baseline from the level 3 down to manageable level of details that the project required to handle all the scope as per submitted schedule on the contract (level 4 or 5 will be created with the same critical path) and resubmit for approval. Resources are more detailed and more defined and a cost account has been created as per WBS but more detail. All unknown scope but already have budgets are separate and not included for BAC until it’s been identified and added to the baseline. (Mostly provisional sum and management reserved). These levels of detail are useful for what if scenario and conditions required needed to be meet.
Mimoune,
I don’t understand with what you disagree.
The owner may think that contractor’s resources are unlimited and it means that he does not level resources at all and can use less detailed schedule that sets contractual milestones.
But clever owner will try to set the requirements to the contractor resources and to control if the contractor workforce is sufficient for proper project performance.

Anoon,
usually the resource loaded schedule is considered at level 4 or even 5. But I don’t approve these levels. The schedule can be shown with different details but if instead of one you manage several schedules of the same project it is hard to avoid errors and besides it is a lot of unnecessary work.

Best Regards,
Vladimir
Anoon Iimos
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Mimoune,

Thanks for digging up up this three year old thread, and it seems that until now, it is not understood on where "Resource Planning" can be applicable?

And they said, resource planning can only be applied if your schedule is "detailed" which means measurable, adjustable and corresponds to other variables.

So what is the level (level 3,4,5...) of this so-called "detailed schedule" wherein you can practically assign and adjust resources?

Would this mean as well that for level 1 or 2 schedules (representing only work packages), you can never expect to assign resources (practically) or make whatever adjustments as regards resources?
mimoune djouallah
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thanks all for your valuable input

Rodel you catch exactly what i want to achieve, once i get the needed productivity of concrete work to be done to respect the said milestones, it is up to the contractor to manage his resource to respect those duration. after all it is up to the contractor to manage his resources.

and for resource leveling, Vladimir i absolutely disagree;)( at least that’s what i notice from my little experience)
that’s depends on the planner background, if he started work from the contractor side, it is the first thing that he cares about,but if he had only work for the main contractor, generally they tend to think that resource are unlimited or that it is the problem of contractor not them.

best regards

mimoune djouallah
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thanks all for your valuable input

Rodel you catch exactly what i want to achieve, once i get the needed productivity of concrete work to be done to respect the said milestones, it is up to the contractor to manage his resource to respect those duration. after all it is up to the contractor to manage his resources.

and for resource leveling, Vladimir i absolutely disagree;)( at least that’s what i notice from my little experience)
that’s depends on the planner background, if he started work from the contractor side, it is the first thing that he cares about,but if he had only work for the main contractor, generally they tend to think that resource are unlimited or that it is the problem of contractor not them.

best regards

mimoune djouallah
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thanks all for your valuable input

Rodel you catch exactly what i want to achieve, once i get the needed productivity of concrete work to be done to respect the said milestones, it is up to the contractor to manage his resource to respect those duration. after all it is up to the contractor to manage his resources.

and for resource leveling, Vladimir i absolutely disagree;)( at least that’s what i notice from my little experience)
that’s depends on the planner background, if he started work from the contractor side, it is the first thing that he cares about,but if he had only work for the main contractor, generally they tend to think that resource are unlimited or that it is the problem of contractor not them.

best regards

Rodel Marasigan
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Anoon,
My understanding of detail is these: For Reinforced concrete works (i.e. Foundation) you have different work forces required to complete the job. You need work force for excavation, another for carpentry works, steel man for reinforcing and Mason and laborer for purring of concrete. This required different task to get the correct workforce to level.
Say: m3/hr for excavation (machine and operator), m2/ hr (carpenter, labor for formworks), ton/ hr (steel man), m3/hr (Mason, laborer, equipment and operator).
If the said Activity is not detailed to task how can you get the correct workforce required when you level the resource?
Anoon,
these are activity requirements:
1. The quantity of work is measured by single physical unit,
2. The same crew is doing the work from the beginning to the end,
3. Productivity is the same from the beginning to the end (if external conditions are the same - season, weather),
4. The payments are the same (for an hour or volume unit),
5. Activity belongs to the certain work package,
6. Activity duration is reasonable, in accordance with the period of schedule analysis (40 hours rule is an example), but this is optional if the quantity done can be measured in physical units.

In this case you will be able to apply the norms - production norms, unit costs, material requirements per volume unit and you will be able to prove that your schedule is created basing on the corporate or inductry standards. It is not easy to justify the schedule that is based on somebody’s vision.
Anoon Iimos
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Vladimir and Rodel,

Thanks for the answers.

A simple "reinforced concreting works" may not turn-out to be simple when you are going to apply resource levelling.

So as Vladimir wrote:"So levelling can be applied only to the detailed schedules where resources are properly assigned."

So - What is a Detailed Schedule?...Where you can assign resources that could be measurable and adjustable?
Anoon,
it can be applied to activities that have certain volume unit and the crew that is doing this specific work from start to finish.
Reinforced concreting works include activities like reinforcing and concreting that have different measures (tons and cubic meters) and crews that do them. Resources have productivities measured in different units, the crews do not work in parallel.
So levelling can be applied only to the detailed schedules where resources are properly assigned.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Rodel Marasigan
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Anoon,
It’s very simple. It either by acceleration or de-acceleration of resources (resource driven activity). It’s called leveling of resources to justify the needs of a project.
Ex: Reinforced concreting works have duration of 20 days having a good productivity say 1:1 but don’t have any constrained on resources. Now on scenario given there is a parameter milestone that an equipment delivery is due in 15 days and have no location to stored what should the action to be done? Level the resource on the parameter given and see how many resources required to attained Milestone date on the same volume of concrete.
Anoon Iimos
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All,

Vladimir said: "Duration is defined by activity volume and total productivity of assigned resources. It can be increased or decreased only if the quantity, calendars, or workload of assigned resources are variable."

To what level of the schedule this definition applies?

I mean for example, an activity is called:

"Reinforced Concreting Works" - how do you measure or level resources and adjust duration(s) (using the above definition)?
Rodel Marasigan
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Valdimir,
Absolutely got the point. It’s the quality of planner and I agree with a good help of the software.
Best Regards,
Rodel
Rodel,
few planners level resources, so they do not notice these problems.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Rodel Marasigan
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I agree that Primavera may not be that précised and leveling module is far from optimal but still doing the work. For some reason they retained the crown where planners have no choice as the company dictates what to use.
The good thing is planners are flexible.
I mean the following:
Activity has physical volume that is measured in physial units (meters, tons, cubic meters, etc.). Assigned resources have productivities that are measured in activity volume physical units per hour, materials may be assigned as quantities per volume unit, etc.
Both P3 and P6 have poor levelling algorithms and produce schedules that are far from optimal.
Duration is defined by activity volume and total productivity of assigned resources. It can be increased or decreased only if the quantity, calendars, or workload of assigned resources are variable.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Rodel Marasigan
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Vladimir,
What do you mean by Quantity and productivity not exists in Primavera? For Labor Primavera have hours or unit, Non Labor hours or unit and Materials quantity. Productivity= Unit/time. I believed those are the same? The leveling of P3 is more powerful than P6. P3 has a capability of Forward/backward leveling and can decrease or increase duration while P6 only resolve conflict of resource but doesn’t touch duration.
mimoune djouallah
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"Quantity and Productivity fields do not exist in P6"
yes they don’t exist per se, but you can simulate them. i am talking about p3 i am not sure about p6

and yes i define resources. for example concrete
i define resource concrete and i define it as driving, as a budget quantity i put the total volume of concrete for this activity, and i put unite rate as the actual productivity, p3 will automatically calculate the duration of this activity.( the activity must be independent not task, it is like productivity task in spider)

now as i said before, i define the normal and max limit of this resource, and let p3 level the activities, p3 has an interesting features to "adjust" unit rate to satisfy the maximum limit of the resource, thus the durations may increase or decrease.

so for simplification i can put those value
resource concrete : normal 20 m3, max 40 m3
unite rate for one activity : 10 m3

now after leveling, i should found different unit rate( and thus different duration) for each concrete activity based on the start milestone and finish milestone of the package. (drawing available, arrival of equipment).

now the quality of leveling of p3 is another subject ;)

best regards.
mimoune
Hi Mimoune,
Quantity and Productivity fields do not exist in P6.
Levelling does not make sense if you do not assign resources.
If you talk about single activities with the expected start and milestone defined finish you can define them as hammocks. They will last from the start event to the finish event.
Knowing durations you can estimete required productivity.
But if you want to adjust a set of activities then it is harder. Somebody shall estimate at what activities additional resources can be used. It is not necessary to re-estimate the durations of all kind of jobs.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
mimoune djouallah
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rodel and vladimir

thanks very much for your replies.
"So you shall define required activity durations" the problem is here how to make this automatic process, because as you know those milestones are dynamic and they change every time.

i will try to use this process and see if it works.
- define those activities as independent ( resource driven)
- in the first iteration define the duration as total quantity/actual productivity
- define maximum productivity as actual productivity x 2( i suppose contractor may do double shift)
- schedule and level, and let P3 crunch or stretch the durations to respect those milestones.

hope it make sens
Hi Mimoune,
“drawing available” and “equipment arrived at site” shall be added as milestones to your construction model and these milestones shall be linked with the activities that depend on them or vice versa.
You wrote that you do not care about contractor resources. So you shall define required activity durations and let the contractor to worry about resource productivities.
In any case P6 does not have the field for resource productivity.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Rodel Marasigan
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Mimoune,
All you need is resource leveling. Do what if scenario such as resource acceleration using the actual productivity and constrain defined. (Ex: using constrain how many resources required to attain date completion having a performance productivity of ???)
Is that help?
mimoune djouallah
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thanks

yes the actual unit rate is known, but if we keep them we will not respect the finish of the project.

for example
drawing available 1 march
equipment arrived at site 1 june

i want to adjust the duration of activity to respect those constraints, the excavation should start 2 march and the concrete work (including curing) must be finished 30 may.
so i want from my software to calculate the new duration and by consequence the new productivity needed to be done from my subcontractor to satisfy my constraints, it is up to him to organize his resources (double shift, or increase resource etc )

best regards

best regards
Hi Mimoune,
your question is not clear to me.
You wrote that activity volumes are known and you defined unit rate (productivity of assigned resources?). These data define activityy duration. What do you mean by adjusting unit rates (productivities)? Adjusting to what?
Best Regards,
Vladimir
mimoune djouallah
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Three years after and I did not figure out this resource planing problems, now how to model this problem.

Let’s start with the known data.
Wbs is defined,
Total duration of the project is know (2 years)
the network logic is done, only hard logic (excavation, concrete work, erection of steel structure, piping etc),
warehouse constraints are implemented, one the package is on site the foundation should be ready.
Three years after and I did not figure out this resource planing problems, now how to model this problem.

Let’s start with the known data.
Wbs is defined,
Total duration of the project is know (2 years)
the network logic is done, only hard logic (excavation, concrete work, erection of steel structure, piping etc),
warehouse constraints are implemented, one the package is on site the foundation should be ready.
total quantity by activity is know (volume, concrete, excavation, weight of packages etc)

now what’s unknown is duration of activities to satisfy those conditions.
What I want to do is assign initial unite rate by activity lets say 10 m3 of reinforced concrete by day and do the same for all the program and let the software adjust (increase or decrease) those unite rate.

Does it make sens ! Eh at this stage I suppose resource are unlimited !!!

I use P3, and we are planning to move to P6, it seems all those fancy option of crunching stretching are removed from p6, I hope I am wrong
Best regards
Faster way requires preliminary works - creating databases with characteristic of typical activities, resources, materials, assignments, creating libraries of typical project fragments (models for standard work packages), creating templates for typical WBS and RBS.
Having these tools you will be able to create new model very fast.
The work will become easy and fast but preliminary work (creating databases and libraries) is hard and long. But this work is necessary if there is a need to implement corporate PM System.
Edgar Ariete
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thank you Vladimir, but i got stucked-up in defining activities and relationships before i can even allocate a single resource! is there any other faster way?
Charleston-Joseph...
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Vladimir,

I thank you a lot.

Your explanation is clear.

Resource assingment, productivity and space limitation are essential ingrdient in planning.

This is specially true in acceleration or catch up in building construction, project turnaround in oil and gas construction to name a few. or maybe ship building or maybe nuclear powered submarine construction.

The acceleration or catch up or turnaround schedule must be check: resource allocation vs space limitation.

Cheers,

Charlie
I wrote that Spider will level resources basing on resource limitations including space.

Project planner may define
- that some activity may be performed by some resources that need certain space (per unit),
- that the number of assigned resources shall be larger than some minimal value and not exceed some maximum,
- that activity has some space limitation.
In this case if the minimal number of resources will be available they will be assigned, additional resources may join when they will finish their current work but the total number of assigned resources will not exceed defined maximal value. Besides resources will be assigned only if necessary space will be available. If (for an example) some resources are working at the same place performing some other activity they use necessary space and the remaining space may be too small for current activity to start (or additional resources to join those resources that started activity execution).
Space may be defined for the site.

There is one more option - you can define resources that may be used at some work type, each of them can have different productivity. These resources belong to some Role. Then you shall define the total number of Role resources to be used or total productivity of assigned resources. Spider will select and assign Role resources basing on their availability, productivity and cost.

Hope I answered your question.
Regards,
Vladimir
Edgar Ariete
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do you mean Spider will automatically assign resources and level if necessary?
Of course space limitations shall be defined by the planner. And space required by each resource also.
I did not write that Spider can do it.
But if it is known then Spider will assign resources taking into account space requirements and space limitations.
I am sorry that my message was not clear.
Regards,
Vladimir
Charleston-Joseph...
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Vladimir,

Spider can do it. How? Does it need special scanner to scan the plan or some sort of stylus to define the space limitation, or ???

Please explain. I doubt if Primavera got this add-in in P5 ver 5.0


Cheers,

Charlie
If space requirements for project resources are known and the total space on activity is known then the software can help with resource assignments.
Edgar Ariete
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the software is just a tool, and it can’t assign resources by itself! the Planner can anyway...
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi Brij,

I got your point. This is one thing that planning software is not aware. Whatever data you place, the software will calculate and give you the answer. If the input is wrong, then, the output is wrong.

Perhaps it is high time to tell the IT wiseguys in the planning industry to consider your idea.

Cheers,

Charlie
Excuse me for the delay with the answer. I teached our customers in another town and did not have time to access Internet.

Kumar,
Primavera does not have the features that were discussed. The process described by Mimoune can help though it requires a lot of manual adjustments.

Mimoune,
I would be glad to discuss approaches used in Spider Project. Many of them may be of interest to serious project planners and for me it would be very interesting to learn other planners oppinions. Unfortunately I am afraid that such discussions may be considered as my attempt to sell Spider to PP members.
But I will be glad to answer any questions if you will write to me directly. My E-mail: spider@mail.cnt.ru.

Regards,
Vladimir
Brij Patwari
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Hi..
Guys, one other major problem to ponder on...
I think what matters most is Resources deployment will always depend upon the Front available at a particular time and it will not follow a Mathametical formula.. i mean it will not be linear or normal distrubution..
Than the question is how exactly these software will guide us regarding the TRUE RESOURCE requirement to ensure the most optimum utilization???????
The other thing is, how to decide the maximum resources we can put for an activity??? There would always be a space constraints to saturate any resource.. Can any body tell from his experience the maths / thumb rules of deciding maximum resource we can put (without considering the optimum utilization)...

Cheers...
mimoune djouallah
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Wondering what it will be the answer of Vladimir; it is like asking Bill Gates how to use Firefox ,)

I think it will be a good idea to make a new section in this forum for spider project, actually I don’t use this software but I love living in a world of diversity, unfortunately Planner are famous to not like changing, they stick with one product and defending it as the best one, must have; the professional tool of choice stuff like that.

mimoune
Siva Kumar
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Vladimir,
Everything seems good with spider project regarding the resource assigment & monitoring.Can we Implement These processess in primavera or it needs suppport from other tools.


Kumar
Mimoune,
English is not the first language in mu country too. What matters is understanding of each other.
This feature is highly estimated by Spider Project users because it permits to implement corporate norms.
Your approach is not easy because you shall recalculate productivity field each time when the crew is changed.
You shall also monitor quantities and make changes to the quantity field for recalculation of remaining duration.
Spider Project also simulates shift work. Before scheduling it is hard to predict which part of the work will be done by which shift. Without modelling shift work you will need to adjust each shift quantities after project scheduling and to do it many times.
In Spider Project you can create standard crews and assign these crews to the work. At any moment you can change the crews and make global change. Productivities will be changed and you can estimate what will happen with the project schedule. It is very useful for What If analysis.
Regards,
Vladimir
mimoune djouallah
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Vladimir
This is really interesting that your software has this feature (from a newbie point of view as me),
actually what I do is defining two custom data item let say quantity( qty) and productivity per day(pro) then with global change I make original duration = qty/prod.
Of course for a particular productivity I assign a standard crew (group of resources, no driving) then I adjust my schedule if I need less duration for a given activity either I double the number of the crew or make a shift ( I hope this is the right word;)

But the idea that is implemented by default in the software is a great plus.

Mimoune

Ps: sorry English is the third language in my country ;)
Charleston-Joseph...
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Kumar,

My friends limit is maximum of 2,000 USD/month.

So, you dont have to sent your cv.

As for the exercise, it just show that you know how to answer your question, the basic only.

I’ll try to pick some live exercise, but this time, it will be multiple resources.

I’ll make it as quick as possible so that it will not consume lots of time.

Cheers

Charlie
In Spider Project activitiy can be defined as productivity driven (there are also duration, hammock and milestone types).
Productivity is the quantity that resource can do in an hour. Productivity can be assigned to the individual resource assignments or to resource crews (multi-resources in Spider Project terminology).
You can use more than one driving resource (different machines or people that have different qualifications).
If activity is productivity driven the its volume (quantity of work) shall be defined. Activity duration is calculated in the process of scheduling basing on the total productivity of all assigned resources.
Usually productivities for typical assignments are stored in the database and it is sufficient to define activity and resource types and activity volume.
Spider Project also permits to assign not individual resources but roles and selects available resources in the scheduling process. That is why activity duration is calculated during project leveling and not before.
If you will have additional questions I will be glad to answer.
mimoune djouallah
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Vladimir wrote

"Yes, and in Spider Project activity duration (if an activity is of Productivity type) is calculated basing on the quantity (volume) of work to be done and the total productivity and workload of assigned resources "

please can you explain more, you mean the productivity of the driving ressource ( or what ever you call in your case)

mimoune
Kumar wrote:
"If that is case..there are other factors to be considered..
eg.,
1.Efficieny of the Loader.
2.Job efficieny
3.Operators Efficieny....."

Yes, and in Spider Project activity duration (if an activity is of Productivity type) is calculated basing on the quantity (volume) of work to be done and the total productivity and workload of assigned resources. This is easy.
I understood that the problem was about creating a schedule where resources will be assigned to the new location activities only after finishing the works at the initial location.
Siva Kumar
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Richard,
If that is case..there are other factors to be considered..
eg.,
1.Efficieny of the Loader.
2.Job efficieny
3.Operators Efficieny.....

that was a piece of rough workout..thats it.

I think we r deviating from the topic of resource planning..

Regards
Kumar
Siva Kumar
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Charleston
As per ure given data,atleast we have to add one more team along with the existing team to acomplish the job in remaining 8 days,.18 cum.

And if u employ three more team with 2 laboures each along with existing team[8 labourers],within next two days u can achieve the target.@ production rate 1 cum per manday.

For 150,000 cum ,u need 12,500 hrs to excavate & dispose.
That was a good exercise !!!!

As of now am earning more than the 2000USD ...looking for a better package...hope to hear a favourable reply from u soon..

Cheers
Kumar
Siva Kumar
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chachrist,

Thanx for the information and it is the one i was looking for and we are doing the same way.All the resources from the search result was self explanatory.

Regards
Kumar.


Charleston-Joseph...
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Kumar,

a very simple computation: manual excavation = 20 cu m. plan productivity: 1 cum per mandays.

Total mandays = 20/1 = 20 mandays.

1 team = 2 labourer

Duration = 20 / 2 = 10 days per team of 2 labourer

After two days work, the team only accomplish 2 cu. m. So how are you going to control in such a way the the original duration of 10 days will be achieve.

If you add three more team with 2 labourer for each team then, how long do you think excavation will be finish.

Using the same analogy, consider 150,000 cu m of road excavation with one gang composed of 1-payloader, 2-dumptrucks capacity 6 cu m each dumptrucks with cycle time of one hour (from loader - to dumping - and return of dumptruck).

How long do you think it will complete the whole excavation?

If you got the correct answer and if and only if you are looking for a new job with salary of around 2,000 US dollar per month, then and only then, please submit your cv. I friend of mine maybe interested to call you for an interview.

cheers,

charlie
Chachrist Srisuwa...
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dear Kumar Siva
I think you might want to check LINE-OF-BALANCE or LINEAR SCHEDULING METHOD to schedule and minimize your workforce. Basically,You will use production rates to determine the number of labors for each type of activity and the pace of your project. And of course using leadtime or space to control work flow smoothness. I believe you can find free academic software to solve your problem, just try keyword Line-Of-Balance, or Linear Scheduling Method, or Repetitive Scheduling Method (pick one). Let me know if you want me to explain more about the concept. :)
Siva Kumar
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Jaikishan,
Can u please explain me how u r controlling the resource team/gang and how u estimate the teams required.
Jaikishan Bhagcha...
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The query seems simple. If u have any previous programme made on similar logic, ma not be same, will remain helpful.
Siva Kumar
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Thanx
Kumar,
I don’t know what software do you use and thus don’t know if my advice will be helpful.
If you want to restrict movements from one location to another until the work at each location will be finished:
1) Create artificial resources Location A, Location B, etc. The total quantity of these resources shall exceed the potential number of parallel activities at each location.
2) Create hammock activities that last from the beginning to the end of work at each location.
3) Assign one unit of current location resource at each work at this location.
4) Assigh total quantities of other location resources on hammock activities.
Now activity can be performed if both necessary resources and location resource are available. New Location resource will be available only when the work on other location is finished.
You can create not one but several location resources and corresponding hammocks for different types of machinery and people.
In Spider Project the same approach may be realised easier because it simulates resource production.
Inform me if this approach is helpful in your case.
Regards,
Vladimir
Siva Kumar
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Vladimir,
yes,u r right..
Can u suggest some tool for managing the situation like what u mentioned & to have control over resource,in the place where resources are frequently shifted from one location to another becoz of scarsity of resources.

Kumar,
it depends on the software that is used.
For an example, in Spider Project you can create unlimited number of WBSs for the same project organising activities by results, by locations, by types of work, by responsibility, etc.
You can use activity codes for organizing activities in Primavera.
We usually suggest to define not only unique activity codes but also activity types (like Excavation) to be able to apply norms (resource productivity, material requirements per volume unit, etc,) and other common characteristics from the corporate databases (reference-books).
In Spider Project your gangs are called multi-resources. And activity duration is calculated basing on muti-resource productivity. Changing the number of resources in the multi-resource you’ll automatically change total multi-resource productivity and activity durations. It is very useful for what if evaluations.

But I see another problem. The program shall understand that moving resources from one location to another takes time and money. It is not reasonable to use some resource one day at one location, next day at the other and then again at the first location. You shall add links or use some other tools to avoid this situation.
Did you meet this problem?
Siva Kumar
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Hi vladimir,
What i mean is..
If u r carrying out say,excavation for pipe laying at various locations,which is a typical worktype.ok.
How u will plan the resource for this?
Based on the available duration and capacity of the resource gang,u will decide on,how many resource gangs to use.
we will try to keep to min. and try to move it from one area to another.

this flow of resource gang can be monitored easily by activity codes by grouping the typical work[excavation for pipe laying] to a common header like,EXCAVATION and organising by the header and check the flow.

I need to know whether the same can be done in WBS?and any further advantages of WBS is there?

hope i’ve clarified enough.

thanx
Hi Kumar,
please clarify your question. Best suited for what?
Regards,
Vladimir