Anoon,
When binding to a contract, a milestone is set and it may link to LD for most of the cases. This is why activity calendar is first to meet the milestone. If activity calendar is not visible due to resource restriction then it should be brought up to the client to approve the new milestone date. If client insist the original milestone, the contractor or PM will now decide and re-do the resource planning to meet the milestone for as far as he can get. That is why more resources are coming from overseas.
I hope this answer you question.

Hi Rodel,

Yes, but I mean considering calendars of limited resources (no consideration of unlimited resources - as where your activity calendars were supposed to have been derived).

Meaning you got to decide between your activity calendar and resource calendar knowing that if you use resource calendar, your schedule (duration) will certainly extend, therefore creating further problems.

I supposed Vladimir’s Spider was designed to handle limited resources on large scales projects?

Best regards

Anoon,
In general practice Activity calendar first. It will give you the full duration of the job. Resource calendar will take place if the delay occurs where you need to plan your resource to catch up the delays. This is where the PM decides to have 2 shift or accelerations of resources. This will depends on working area, safety & environmental issues and risk management. If the area is too crowded for increasing the resource productivity will become an issue including safety and risk that is why shifting of works are considered. While considering the shifting, safety, environmental and risk is again analyzed if the area is recommended for double or triple shifts. Again if not possible then working extra hour maybe appropriate.
Is that making sense?

Anoon,
If you read my post #63, it clearly stated that activity first before the resources for most of the projects.
1) When preparing a schedule for a bid documents, resources are on summary level on the schedule because the detail task was not yet created as per construction methodology but the schedule represent the whole scope in the contract.
2) Once the project is commencing or awarded, the PM will resource the project with the help of planner, estimator and HR. The planner will breakdown the schedule into manageable detail and start resource planning with the help of construction manager based on construction methodology and submit to PM for approval.
Hope this answer you question.

Hi Vladimir,

I supposed when the Client/Owner accepts the Contractor, that means that the Contractor is qualified for the job.

And I don’t believe that the ability to prepare a proper schedule (resource loaded), is one of the basis for Contractor’s pre-qualification (maybe), but I supposed they are not counting on that in the first place.

The Client/Owner will give the Scope and the specifications (in general), but would they dictate about the methods of the Contractor?

Best regards

Anoon,
I will answer basing on Spider Project functionality but will omit the usage of typical fragment library. We shall discuss it later.
1. Start with the results WBS. Work packages in this WBS mean achieving some small result.
2, Decompose work packages creating project activities (describe actions that shall be done to achieve corresponding results.
3. Link activities of work packages and then enter links between activities of different work packages. Add and link milestones.
4. Enter activity types - some of them are duration driven, but for most their durations are defined by the quantity of work and assigned resource productivities. Enter activity types.
5. For duration driven activities enter expected durations, for others enter the volumes (quantities) of work to be done.
6. If absent, create a list of project resources and enter their quantities.
7. Define activity and resource calendars. Activity calendar defines the periods when it can be performed. Resource calendar defines resource work periods. Activity can be performed only when the time is working for all calendars - activity can be performed and assigned resources are available.
8. Create crews - groups of resources necessary for doing the work on different activity types. We call these groups multi-resources.
9. Assign crews (it means assigning all crew resources). If resources shall work only together they belong to the same team. If resources can work independently assign them as the separate team.
10. Enter productivities of assigned resources for those activities whose duration is defined by work quantities.
11. Create a list of materials.
12. Assign materials to activities and resources (fixed quantities, or quantities per hour, or work volume units).
13. If materials are restrited create the supply schedule (when and what material quantities will become available).
14. Now you are ready for scheduling.

The better way for creating schedule model - use typical fragment library and corporate reference-books. But this is Spider Project specific.

Let’s return to calendars.
There are separate activity calendars (when activity can be performed), resource calendars (resource work time), and dependency calendars (applied to dependency lags).
Activity will be performed at periods when the time is working for both activity and all resources assigned in the same team.
If resources do not belong to the same crew and can work on activity independently then they shall be assigned as different teams.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

Hi Vladimir,

"Activities are planned first" - What’s the consideration here? Highest priority (meaning Activities sequencing will drive the schedule - first)?

"The schedule shall respect all constraints - activity sequencing, resource availability, Calendars, everything."

Order (I’ll limit to three):

1. Activity(s) sequencing
2. Resource Availability
3. Calendars - (might involve both Activity and Resource)

For number 3, which one should be considered first, Activity Calendar or Resource Calendar?

You might say that it will depend if your Schedule is Task Dependent or Resource Dependent, but please remember, "Activities are planned first".

Hi Mike,

Would you mind answering with substance?

Best regards

Hi Anoon,
activities require resources to performed.
Activities are planned first - you shall decide what to do first and then who will do what.
If necessary resources are not available activity performance will be delayed.
The Client/Owner define the requirements to the project schedule, Contractor developes the schedule.
The schedule shall respect all constraints - activity sequencing, resource availability, Calendars, everything.

Best Regards,
Vladimir

When the project is late the Owner usually looses more.
To have early warnings if there are problems is necessary. The lack of resources on site is one of these warnings. It is better to know resource requirements than blindly believe contractors.

Trevor,

I supposed the Client or Owner is not "dictating durations", but I believe they are guessing durations and let the Contractors validate that guess.

So why the Client should bother about how many tilers the Contractor is supposed to assign? When all the Client wants is a Tile this much, and to be finished or delivered on this time?

All the rest, you can refer to the Contract.

All,

IMHO, the Owner or Client has nothing to do with "Resource Planning", - the Client’s resource is the Contractor.

"Resource Planning" is the contractor’s problem depending on his/her methodology and as long as it is in compliance with the requirements.

Anoon,
Majority of the company that I work with are having this practice. When the company submit a bid having a schedule of level 2 or 3 resourced and cost loaded as required. This will include critical path, identified risk, S-curved and histogram but management level. Meaning the resources are not breakdown as detailed but showing the total number of workforce from start to peak to finish.
When Project start the planner start to derive the baseline from the level 3 down to manageable level of details that the project required to handle all the scope as per submitted schedule on the contract (level 4 or 5 will be created with the same critical path) and resubmit for approval. Resources are more detailed and more defined and a cost account has been created as per WBS but more detail. All unknown scope but already have budgets are separate and not included for BAC until it’s been identified and added to the baseline. (Mostly provisional sum and management reserved). These levels of detail are useful for what if scenario and conditions required needed to be meet.

Mimoune,

Thanks for digging up up this three year old thread, and it seems that until now, it is not understood on where "Resource Planning" can be applicable?

And they said, resource planning can only be applied if your schedule is "detailed" which means measurable, adjustable and corresponds to other variables.

So what is the level (level 3,4,5...) of this so-called "detailed schedule" wherein you can practically assign and adjust resources?

Would this mean as well that for level 1 or 2 schedules (representing only work packages), you can never expect to assign resources (practically) or make whatever adjustments as regards resources?

thanks all for your valuable input

Rodel you catch exactly what i want to achieve, once i get the needed productivity of concrete work to be done to respect the said milestones, it is up to the contractor to manage his resource to respect those duration. after all it is up to the contractor to manage his resources.

and for resource leveling, Vladimir i absolutely disagree;)( at least that’s what i notice from my little experience)
that’s depends on the planner background, if he started work from the contractor side, it is the first thing that he cares about,but if he had only work for the main contractor, generally they tend to think that resource are unlimited or that it is the problem of contractor not them.

best regards

Anoon,
My understanding of detail is these: For Reinforced concrete works (i.e. Foundation) you have different work forces required to complete the job. You need work force for excavation, another for carpentry works, steel man for reinforcing and Mason and laborer for purring of concrete. This required different task to get the correct workforce to level.
Say: m3/hr for excavation (machine and operator), m2/ hr (carpenter, labor for formworks), ton/ hr (steel man), m3/hr (Mason, laborer, equipment and operator).
If the said Activity is not detailed to task how can you get the correct workforce required when you level the resource?

Vladimir and Rodel,

Thanks for the answers.

A simple "reinforced concreting works" may not turn-out to be simple when you are going to apply resource levelling.

So as Vladimir wrote:"So levelling can be applied only to the detailed schedules where resources are properly assigned."

So - What is a Detailed Schedule?...Where you can assign resources that could be measurable and adjustable?

Anoon,
It’s very simple. It either by acceleration or de-acceleration of resources (resource driven activity). It’s called leveling of resources to justify the needs of a project.
Ex: Reinforced concreting works have duration of 20 days having a good productivity say 1:1 but don’t have any constrained on resources. Now on scenario given there is a parameter milestone that an equipment delivery is due in 15 days and have no location to stored what should the action to be done? Level the resource on the parameter given and see how many resources required to attained Milestone date on the same volume of concrete.

Valdimir,
Absolutely got the point. It’s the quality of planner and I agree with a good help of the software.
Best Regards,
Rodel

I agree that Primavera may not be that précised and leveling module is far from optimal but still doing the work. For some reason they retained the crown where planners have no choice as the company dictates what to use.
The good thing is planners are flexible.

Vladimir,
What do you mean by Quantity and productivity not exists in Primavera? For Labor Primavera have hours or unit, Non Labor hours or unit and Materials quantity. Productivity= Unit/time. I believed those are the same? The leveling of P3 is more powerful than P6. P3 has a capability of Forward/backward leveling and can decrease or increase duration while P6 only resolve conflict of resource but doesn’t touch duration.

Hi Mimoune,
Quantity and Productivity fields do not exist in P6.
Levelling does not make sense if you do not assign resources.
If you talk about single activities with the expected start and milestone defined finish you can define them as hammocks. They will last from the start event to the finish event.
Knowing durations you can estimete required productivity.
But if you want to adjust a set of activities then it is harder. Somebody shall estimate at what activities additional resources can be used. It is not necessary to re-estimate the durations of all kind of jobs.
Best Regards,
Vladimir

Hi Mimoune,
“drawing available” and “equipment arrived at site” shall be added as milestones to your construction model and these milestones shall be linked with the activities that depend on them or vice versa.
You wrote that you do not care about contractor resources. So you shall define required activity durations and let the contractor to worry about resource productivities.
In any case P6 does not have the field for resource productivity.
Best Regards,
Vladimir

thanks

yes the actual unit rate is known, but if we keep them we will not respect the finish of the project.

for example
drawing available 1 march
equipment arrived at site 1 june

i want to adjust the duration of activity to respect those constraints, the excavation should start 2 march and the concrete work (including curing) must be finished 30 may.
so i want from my software to calculate the new duration and by consequence the new productivity needed to be done from my subcontractor to satisfy my constraints, it is up to him to organize his resources (double shift, or increase resource etc )

best regards

best regards

Three years after and I did not figure out this resource planing problems, now how to model this problem.

Let’s start with the known data.
Wbs is defined,
Total duration of the project is know (2 years)
the network logic is done, only hard logic (excavation, concrete work, erection of steel structure, piping etc),
warehouse constraints are implemented, one the package is on site the foundation should be ready.
Three years after and I did not figure out this resource planing problems, now how to model this problem.

Let’s start with the known data.
Wbs is defined,
Total duration of the project is know (2 years)
the network logic is done, only hard logic (excavation, concrete work, erection of steel structure, piping etc),
warehouse constraints are implemented, one the package is on site the foundation should be ready.
total quantity by activity is know (volume, concrete, excavation, weight of packages etc)

now what’s unknown is duration of activities to satisfy those conditions.
What I want to do is assign initial unite rate by activity lets say 10 m3 of reinforced concrete by day and do the same for all the program and let the software adjust (increase or decrease) those unite rate.

Does it make sens ! Eh at this stage I suppose resource are unlimited !!!

I use P3, and we are planning to move to P6, it seems all those fancy option of crunching stretching are removed from p6, I hope I am wrong
Best regards

thank you Vladimir, but i got stucked-up in defining activities and relationships before i can even allocate a single resource! is there any other faster way?

I wrote that Spider will level resources basing on resource limitations including space.

Project planner may define
- that some activity may be performed by some resources that need certain space (per unit),
- that the number of assigned resources shall be larger than some minimal value and not exceed some maximum,
- that activity has some space limitation.
In this case if the minimal number of resources will be available they will be assigned, additional resources may join when they will finish their current work but the total number of assigned resources will not exceed defined maximal value. Besides resources will be assigned only if necessary space will be available. If (for an example) some resources are working at the same place performing some other activity they use necessary space and the remaining space may be too small for current activity to start (or additional resources to join those resources that started activity execution).
Space may be defined for the site.

There is one more option - you can define resources that may be used at some work type, each of them can have different productivity. These resources belong to some Role. Then you shall define the total number of Role resources to be used or total productivity of assigned resources. Spider will select and assign Role resources basing on their availability, productivity and cost.

Hope I answered your question.
Regards,
Vladimir

Of course space limitations shall be defined by the planner. And space required by each resource also.
I did not write that Spider can do it.
But if it is known then Spider will assign resources taking into account space requirements and space limitations.
I am sorry that my message was not clear.
Regards,
Vladimir

If space requirements for project resources are known and the total space on activity is known then the software can help with resource assignments.

Hi Brij,

I got your point. This is one thing that planning software is not aware. Whatever data you place, the software will calculate and give you the answer. If the input is wrong, then, the output is wrong.

Perhaps it is high time to tell the IT wiseguys in the planning industry to consider your idea.

Cheers,

Charlie

Hi..
Guys, one other major problem to ponder on...
I think what matters most is Resources deployment will always depend upon the Front available at a particular time and it will not follow a Mathametical formula.. i mean it will not be linear or normal distrubution..
Than the question is how exactly these software will guide us regarding the TRUE RESOURCE requirement to ensure the most optimum utilization???????
The other thing is, how to decide the maximum resources we can put for an activity??? There would always be a space constraints to saturate any resource.. Can any body tell from his experience the maths / thumb rules of deciding maximum resource we can put (without considering the optimum utilization)...

Cheers...

Vladimir
This is really interesting that your software has this feature (from a newbie point of view as me),
actually what I do is defining two custom data item let say quantity( qty) and productivity per day(pro) then with global change I make original duration = qty/prod.
Of course for a particular productivity I assign a standard crew (group of resources, no driving) then I adjust my schedule if I need less duration for a given activity either I double the number of the crew or make a shift ( I hope this is the right word;)

But the idea that is implemented by default in the software is a great plus.

Mimoune

Ps: sorry English is the third language in my country ;)

In Spider Project activitiy can be defined as productivity driven (there are also duration, hammock and milestone types).
Productivity is the quantity that resource can do in an hour. Productivity can be assigned to the individual resource assignments or to resource crews (multi-resources in Spider Project terminology).
You can use more than one driving resource (different machines or people that have different qualifications).
If activity is productivity driven the its volume (quantity of work) shall be defined. Activity duration is calculated in the process of scheduling basing on the total productivity of all assigned resources.
Usually productivities for typical assignments are stored in the database and it is sufficient to define activity and resource types and activity volume.
Spider Project also permits to assign not individual resources but roles and selects available resources in the scheduling process. That is why activity duration is calculated during project leveling and not before.
If you will have additional questions I will be glad to answer.

Kumar wrote:
"If that is case..there are other factors to be considered..
eg.,
1.Efficieny of the Loader.
2.Job efficieny
3.Operators Efficieny....."

Yes, and in Spider Project activity duration (if an activity is of Productivity type) is calculated basing on the quantity (volume) of work to be done and the total productivity and workload of assigned resources. This is easy.
I understood that the problem was about creating a schedule where resources will be assigned to the new location activities only after finishing the works at the initial location.

Kumar,

a very simple computation: manual excavation = 20 cu m. plan productivity: 1 cum per mandays.

Total mandays = 20/1 = 20 mandays.

1 team = 2 labourer

Duration = 20 / 2 = 10 days per team of 2 labourer

After two days work, the team only accomplish 2 cu. m. So how are you going to control in such a way the the original duration of 10 days will be achieve.

If you add three more team with 2 labourer for each team then, how long do you think excavation will be finish.

Using the same analogy, consider 150,000 cu m of road excavation with one gang composed of 1-payloader, 2-dumptrucks capacity 6 cu m each dumptrucks with cycle time of one hour (from loader - to dumping - and return of dumptruck).

How long do you think it will complete the whole excavation?

If you got the correct answer and if and only if you are looking for a new job with salary of around 2,000 US dollar per month, then and only then, please submit your cv. I friend of mine maybe interested to call you for an interview.

cheers,

charlie