Hi Waseem,

I am afraid that what you quote as the limitations of “any 3D/4D modelling tools requires understanding of the Modified Line-of-Balance method” simply isn’t supported by the facts.

I am not sure of the source of your statement, but it patently isn’t correct. Whilst some of the 4D software uses the line-of-balance method, others quite clearly don’t. Synchro for example has it’s own in built CPA planning system and Graphisoft links to any number of different software packages including DYNAProject, Primavera® Engineering and Construction, Primavera Contractor and MS Project.

Gary.

Hi! Charles,Gordon, David, Clive Randal, Renjith B, and above all Gary
thanks for the interest shown in the thread started way back in march -2005, i believe this thread is among the very few that have generated so much interest in the forum,so much so that the PEO chairman aired his views on this thread, which is something very uncommon.

Lets get back to the main topic, but i still believe that the market presence for such a tool is very limited and since this cannot appeal the massess so cant sell, however kindly read below the limitations of the of the so called tools and judge yourseleves and as far i am concered i am not gonna buy this yet nor advocate it to mislead the industry..... see below
THE LIMITATIONS
Say Use of DYNAProject or any 3D/4D modelling tools ™ requires understanding of the Modified Line-of-Balance method.This has not been a limitation in Finland or some other EU countries because the Modified Line-of-Balance has beenused there for a long time and every construction engineer is trained in the method. In other
countries, the theory behind the software is not so familiar. The goal of the authors is to show
that Line-of-Balance can be used as a practical tool to schedule and control even specialprojects.
Control action plans are often not analyzed to the full extent possible. In the schedule-planning phase,
the more advanced alternative evaluation features are not well used. However, the situation
seems to be improving with training and there are many projects where the full potential ofthe software is being realized but not fully explored and could not marry the general trends of CPM.
The first alternative results in loss of accuracy and the second results in extra work. The qality of starting data is rapidly improving because contractors are demanding he amount information in the form required by the software.
To achieve effective control a tool that shows the total effects of deviations is needed.
BUT AT WHAT COST ?

cheers

Waseem Saber

Gordon
Spot on
Get the message across in a form the audience can understand and are interested in
Clive

anyone else who was really scared as to where David’s post was heading... raise your hands :o).

What we seem to be seeing here is that those of us who’se disciplines do not suit the use of the 4d systems (certain Non-Construction, or Design only Projects) seem to be excessively vehement in their dismissal of this tool.

One of the biggest Issues we all face is getting the message across to senior stakeholders in a format that they understand. We try nice, colourful bar charts, lovely spreadsheets and graphs, but what better than great big colour pictures like cartoons?

I’ve seldom seen a better example of a format tailored to it’s audience, I predict a long and distinguished future..

Renjith,

The two new tools that we are currently using are…

Graphisoft Constructor 2005, details of which can be found at Graphisofts Website

And another new product called Synchro, details can be found on the Synchro Website

Both are excellent tools.

Gary France
Mace

hi every body,
i actually want to know which software/tool you r using for the 3D modeling. Is it is some thing linked with a 3D designing tool like Ideas, Catia or Pro E?

A 3D model linked to a construction programme to create a 4D visualisation is simply a tool.

There is no software available which replaces the intuition and experience of good engineers and construction planners.

When the 3D model is used for a lot more than just 4D visualisations it is very valuable. In our experience, the planners we have worked with find it very useful for communicating their ideas to others who don’t have the patience to read through 100’s of tasks on a Gantt chart. (or who don’t even understand what they are looking at!!)

So, in my opinion, a 4D model is a very powerful communication, visualisation and planning tool. It is only useful though if the people who create it fully understand the project details and client requirements.

You can use the 3D model for so much more ... design co-ordination of building services, management of sub-contractors, preparation of method statements, raising queries with the Architect, production of presentation images. If you are going to create a detailed 3D model of a project... make as much use of it as possible. Linking it to the programme is only one of those uses.

Remember, like all design and planning tools....
rubbish in = rubbish out.
Not every monkey can use these tools.

thank you for selling your idea for the 4d planning and visualisation but i stongly believe there are no buyers for this idea.

this is not the tool to present the facts,effects and impacts on the programs and if personnel tend to beileve the impact by this tool its better they go back to the basics of the engineering by becoming the good interperator of the drawings etc... and if they cannot then they better stay away.

waseem saber

We developed and used 3d visualization for Olympic Village (for 1998 Youth Games) construction schedule. It was used for presenting project status for officials (Moscow mayor, etc.). Construction managers did not use it at all, they told that they don’t need 3d model to learn what each activity means. As the result after this project was finished the tool died because nobody wanted to use it. Project participants considered it as a toy. Technically it is not hard.
Regards,
Vladimir