(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?
(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.
Hi fellow applicants.
I have been taking some time exploring the guild application process for Fellow (Black Belt) level at delay analysis.
I have found it to be a mares nest of interlocking websites that take you to no clear destination - unless it is back to where I started.
It also appears that you have to have at least 6 publications in the PP library plus 3 references from clients / employees etc.
No account needs be taken of my years of practice at expert level plus the publications available from my website.
I have therefore given up.
In the words of Groucho Marx - why would I want join a guild that would have me as a member.
Best regards
Mike Testro
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Thanks for the messages
Thanks for the messages guys.
Hi Mike - your references were not 'rejected', as you know the Guild References use a 360 Degree Assessment and consist of some tick boxes for your peers, clients (if you have any) and subordinates (again, only if you have any) to tick to say what they think about you / us in terms of their perception of our KNOWLEDGE (FACTUAL, CONCEPTUAL, PROCEDURAL, CRITICAL THINKING), our PRODUCTIVITY while working with them, our TEAMWORK, our exhibited LEADERSHIP and also their views on our OVERALL PERFORMANCE.
People seem to be agreeing that this is relevant to everyone in all roles and in all industry sectors etc.
These "360 Degree References" seem to add much more value that the normal reference which says "I recommend Jo because she is great at her job and has shown she is hugely capable and 100% reliable; couldn't ask to have a better assistant" type reference. but I accept that everyone is busy and might nt have the time or the inclination to tick the boxes and everyone is entitled to have an opinion; it would be boring if we all agreed on everything.
Hi Stephen - you (and Mike) have made some good suggestions, thanks.
The last bullet on my VOLUNTEER role / remit here is to be reminded that the Guild is run By Project Controls People, for Project Controls People and as a result I am to listen to everyone and make sure that the aforementioned Project Controls people are aware of the issues and buy into the changes that may be necessary.
Hope this helps :)
I will report back when I get some feedback. I am however already aware that there are already things in the pipeline to accept Fellows by Nomination which I (personally) think is a good thing.
Have a lovely day chaps :)
Thanks... Jo
I will just make a quick
I will just make a quick suggestion.
I can understand why the Guild feels it necessary to have a firm process for acceptance/certification. (In this case, it's actually established two processes: Testified and Certified). But it seems to me that either those processes must be made less onerous or the Guild will wither into total irrelevance and become defunct.
If the Guild is to survive, then in all probability both of the above will happen. It will first wither and then it will water down the processes and exams in order to stay alive. Neither of these courses, it seems to me, is particularly beneficial to the project management community.
What's really interesting to me is that someone like Mike Testro, who...
...is, by dint of the onerous processes, being excluded.
I have no doubt that Mike would add a great deal to the Guild, both in terms of his knowledge and experience and because he is an extremely practical and level-headed individual. But it seems that the Guild is leaning more toward keeping itself a small and insular group. (Which, of course, is its right and, indeed, has been the suicidal history of guilds for at least a millennium.)
I'm curious -- is there ANYONE in the project management world that the Guild would recognize and value as a member without such an onerous process? Jim Kelley, developer of CPM? Dave Cleland? Russell Archibald? Harold Kerzner? Bill Duncan? How about Peter Drucker? W. Edwards Deming? Dwight D. Eisenhower? Surely there is SOMEONE (alive or dead!) of whom the Guild would say: "This person's membership and association with the GPC would be so valuable to our organization that if they want to be a member, we'd LOVE to have them."
So my suggestion would be an additional membership. Call it Honorary, if you like, and only give it to people who give assurances that they will work for the advancement of the Guild. Make the requirements specific to the person. (If you see Ike come asking for membership, I'd promptly let him in right before heading to the psychiatric ward. same for Drcker and Deming, of course.)
Perhaps make it by invitation only, and Mike might or might not be high on that list. But it seems to me that Mike Testro, by applying to be a paid member, has already given an assurance he supports the Guild's efforts, and I know he would be a valued member. And the Guild is NOT better off by keeping him outside the tent.
Fraternally in project management,
Steve the Bajan
Hi all GPC ApplicantsI have
Hi all GPC Applicants
I have always supported the aims and ideals of the Guild of Project Management and I have tried to be involved in the foundation and set up stage but was never accepted.
Now I have finally given up applying for a Fellow membership of the guild.
I was allowed to pass through the Certification Interview "Because of your obvious experience and senior standing within the Project Controls Community".
I subbmitted 7 articles to the PP library - now withdrawn.
But then I was required to request 9 referees to fill in an 8 page survey form as to my suitability to become a Fellow - none of which had any relevance to my skills and experience as a consultant delay analyst.
I am not prepared to put my clients through such a time consuming/wasting operation - I don't have 9 current clients anyway.
More than 6 PP members were kind enough to send an independant endorsement of my application but these were rejected.
(Thanks Guys - I appreciate your efforts)
So as far as I am concerned that is the end of it.
Best regards
Mike Testro
I agree with Mike,This looks
I agree with Mike,
This looks like a typical money making racket with a bad organization and some smooth talking agents.
This certificate will promise what? and who cares if you certified...its if you can do the job that counts,
I've worked with many of candidates with these so called qualifications but cant plan and why cause it does not teach you planning as that comes with experience....yes the basics you can learn, and become a planning jockey, but the experience is what develops you into a good Planner. creating a schedule from flow diagramm and PID and layout, understanding how everything fits together, the logic, the tracking, the revising of logic etc.etc.
Also amazing that your experience does not count in this process? and why?
Hi Mike,Thanks for
Hi Mike,
Thanks for acknowledging that you feel I am here trying to help you. To answer your two questions...
"Who is assessing the applications for Fellowship - what steps did they have go through?"
- Other GPC Fellows are reviewing Fellow Applicants; they make up the Membership Review Team. They will / are being given some guidance and training with respect to the criteria against which Applicant Profile, 360 Degree References and his / her Library Content are to be reviewed, or 'assessed'. However as Fellows of the Guild are defined as "Practitioners who's peers consider them to have made significant contributions to the field of Project Controls" I think it will be almost immediately evident to a Fellow who is and who is not of the appropriate grade from the outset. Right?
"And one more - what weight dose 3696 topic responses hold?"
- Wow, you have been prolific on here; congratulations. In terms of value to the Guild, I cannot say; but I can say that it would likely not obviate the need for the above. However, I will ask for you :)
I do hope this helps.
If you need any more help my email is admin@guildofprojectcontrols.com
Regards... Jo
Hi JoThanks for your input -
Hi Jo
Thanks for your input - I understand that you are trying to be helpful.
One question if you can answer it is Who is assessing the applications for Fellowship - what steps did they have go through?
And one more - what weight dose 3696 topic responses hold?
Best regards
Mike T.
Dear Mike,Regarding your
Dear Mike,
Regarding your comment "Please therefore just let me join as a Fellow without all this rigmarole - I am offered the FCIOB by just filling in a form."...
There are three main elements to which you rather surprisingly refer as "rigmarole"...
(1) The PROFILE I reiterate that I can assist you by sorting out your online profile for you; that's my role / job so no real effort required from you on this.
(2) The REFERENCES consist of a simple template to better understand what your subordinates, peers, superiors and clients think about you and your your capabilities and provides a good 360 degree viewpoint. If a practitioner is to be recognised then it is only reaosnable that some form of assessment is carried out; I am sure you would agree. The Guild cannot simply allow us to fill out a form and then take it for granted that someone is capable or not. This would not be practicable or assign any level of rigour or value to an accreditation; again, I am sure you would agree.
(3) The LIBRARY is an online tool for use by only Guild Members. It is about sharing the knowledge and supporting a career path for the younger practitioners. You would need to provide materials; this is the whole basis of the Guild's ethos...to demonstrate work product and to assist others.
Mike, if you do wish to take this further simply contact me at admin@guildofprojectcontrols.com and I will help you sort things.
Regards...Jo
Hi Jo"I have therefore given
Hi Jo
"I have therefore given up."
"I am sorry that someone of your obvious experience will not be joining us."
Please therefore just let me join as a Fellow without all this rigmarole - I am offered the FCIOB by just filling in a form.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Dear Mike and Richard,My name
Dear Mike and Richard,
My name is Jo and it is my job to assist all Guild Applicants in their Application Process. My remit is to keep everyone happy and assist wherever and whenever possible. I have pledged, as part of my role description, to respond to all emails sent to the Guild's central email within 7 calendar days.
The email address is admin@guildofprojectcontrols.com - I do hope that this helps and I will try to answer your questions which I have shown in bold italics below...
... "I have found it to be a mares nest of interlocking websites that take you to no clear destination - unless it is back to where I started."
I am afraid that I do not fully understand the statement regarding "a maze of interlocking websites"? There is only one website.
While we (the Guild) grow we have been allowed to utilise the website and infrastructure offered by the Planning Planet people. The PP team acknowledge that their website is not perfect and is sometimes a little cumbersome BUT they have been around (and growing) for over 14 years now so peoplle are using it and working with it.
I have contacted James (WIlliams) the Founder when I have had problems and he has organised some improvements to the online profile-experience system. I still have lots of ideas (and requirements) and he assures me he will work on them for us when time permits.
... "It also appears that you have to have at least 6 publications in the PP library"
The LIBRARY is an online tool for use by only Guild Memberss that demonstrates examples of Members work experience; serving as learning materials for use by other Members. It will contain case studies, presentations, reports, production rates, lessons learned, sample / schedule templates, sample scope breakdown structures, numbering systems, etc., and processes, procedures, etc.
Essentially the members offer their work product (personal work, not company owned IP) in order to assist and perhaps mentor people with lesser experience and knowledge. It is about sharing the knowledge and supporting a career path for the younger practitioners. Everyone from Proficient Level upwards will be (and is) providing content in order to assist other practitioners. Here is the Guidance Note on this if you have questions.
... "It also appears that you have to have at least 3 references from clients / employees etc."
..."I had to find three sponsors to get my Fellow of the Institution of Civil Engineers, and that was tough enough. I won't be looking for nine sponsors/references for GPC"The REFERENCES consist of a simple template to better understand what your subordinates, peers, superiors and clients think about you and your approach to work and their perception of your capabilities. To date I have recieved hundreds of these and I understand that it takes 10 minutes to fill in.
I have exprience of 'people management' and believe it to be a fantastic tool which offers a 360 degree viewpoint.
Assessors (i.e. other senior practitioners like yourself) will look at what others have said about the Applicant (i.e. the references) and look at the documented expeirence (i.e. the online profile) and can then gain a better understanding of you. Here is the Reference Template on this if you have questions.
..."No account needs be taken of my years of practice at expert level plus the publications available from my website."
This is completely incorrect :)
My comments above reiterate that years of practice (i.e. documentable expeirence) are a vital part of the process as are publications (i.e. library content).
The accreditation process is also supplemented of validation of knowledge at some of the levels; but the Fellow level does not require an exam as it is for practitioners "who have made significant contributions to the field of Project Controls" - so a practitioners capabilities should be extremely evident in this case.
... "I have therefore given up."
I am sorry that someone of your obvious experience will not be joining us.
... "I particularly agree with the comments on navigating the application process for Fellows"
The Guild's JOIN page has a "Apply for a Certification at the FELLOW LEVEL" link which takes you to this PDF which makes the process clear...
http://www.planningplanet.com/sites/default/files/gpc_fellow_level_application_process_and_requirements.pdf
Hope this helps.
... "Maybe I'm old fashioned, but any Institute or Guild should have some transparency, like a registered address, a landline and a maybe a few names available to those interested. Or it maybe that in today's cyber world terrestial things have less importance."
A registered address will likely be provided as will transparency of operation; after all how else can it be as the Guild is being developed, run and shaped by Project Controls practioners for Project Controls practitioners?
The Guild was formed through Planning Planet which has a 14 year track record. It is setup to accredit those who warrant being accredited and who have proven themselves to be of quality in respect to one or more of the real-world job roles shown on the Career Path Matrix. They even have buy in by the likes of these sponsors. Because the Guild comes from Planning Planet it has the same spirit "of helping each other" and is one of the very same reasons why the Guild Library has been setup... to share information and assist others etc.
The main aspiration is to try to further establish Project Controls as a key component of project delivery which is what it should be (I am married to a Project Controls person - help me!). I am continually told that PM's don't run projects, the PCM's do... via showing the PM's whats important and by telling the PM's what they need to know at any given point in time. Everyone knows that :) I will stop now as I sound like my husband!!!!
I do hope this helps.
Any questions, please do email me at admin@guildofprojectcontrols.com if you have any feedback or questions etc as I do not patrol these forums; I work on (and am inundated by) the emails that flow in each day :)
Regards...Jo
GPC Administration Team Leader
Well said Mike, I endorse
Well said Mike, I endorse your comments.
I particularly agree with the comments on navigating the application process for Fellows
In addition I have a couple more issues:
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but any Institute or Guild should have some transparency, like a registered address, a landline and a maybe a few names available to those interested. Or it maybe that in today's cyber world terrestial things have less importance.
I had to find three sponsors to get my Fellow of the Institution of Civil Engineers, and that was tough enough.
I won't be looking for nine sponsors/references for GPC
And finally I am a Planning Planet member with 100% profile registered, and my first attempt to respond to this post was rejected. This is the second attempt. If it is that difficult to make a post, the IT staff need to step in.
Could the management please take another look at the Fellow application process
Best regards
Richard Beazley
Hong Kong